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Bill Whittle on why the Conservatives lost the election
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Hale-Yes
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Location: Brawley, Ca. USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By The Way, Conservatives did not lose the election. We had the popular vote stolen from us. Cut, Paste, Read. https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/judicial-watch-finds-millions-of-extra-registrants-on-voting-rolls-warns-california-pennsylvania-north-carolina-colorado-virginia-to-clean-up-voting-rolls-or-face-a-fed/?utm_source=deployer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newswatch&utm_term=members&utm_content=20200108215827 In my County (Imperial County) 115 % of the eligible voters voted in the last national election. 115 %! No one in this one-party state said anything. Welcome to California. Judicial Watch says that over 2 million illegal votes were cast in the last national election in California alone.
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crbnunit
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was good to go back and re-read these posts. It shows how we can get together and get along even though we have different views. Too bad we don't seem to be able to do this on a country wide scale. If we could all talk to one another, things would change and the government would fear us. Anyone else think this division is engineered?

Kurt; I can not agree more with your assessment of socialism, what it has done to our native population, our inner cities and even more disturbing, the last several generations of our children. As far as I am concerned, the creation of the welfare state is one of the more heinous crimes inflicted upon our citizens and is just a more insidious form of genocide than killing them outright. People need to feel productive, have goals and to feel they have value, otherwise, they wither and die.
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VA Maule
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take a look at what totally unthinkable [ until now] actions the Virginia General Assembly is doing to the 2nd Amendment. Several of the proposed bills have confiscation clauses and automatic felony charges for not turning in your semi-auto pistols and rifles. Turning today's law abiding citizens in to tomorrow's criminals. So if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns!

Just have to wonder if these lawmakers whom don't believe we should have our guns for protection from them ( make NO mistake about it this is what the 2nd is for)will be keeping their semi & fully automatic armed bodyguards to protect themselves from us?
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Andy Young
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One has to wonder, just how horrible is life for the people who live in those countries which have significant restrictions on individual ownership of guns?
I have to admit that during the extensive time I’ve spent in such places (most of Europe, New Zealand, Australia) the citizens seemed quite happy and unoppressed. Is the fear that our government is more prone to oppression than theirs? Or have they just been lucky so far, and it is imminent there as well?
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LCDRLES



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
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Location: KINK West Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They may be lucky, but they aren’t free. They live at the whim of their government.
I spent over 10 years as a Naval Aviator to keep our country free, and I am appalled at how our populace is giving away that freedom.
I’ve spent a lot of time overseas as well and my view of the country’s with draconian gun laws is not as rosy as Andy’s. I live in a part of the country where all you have to do is look south to see how “Lucky” the people are in a country with no private ownership of firearms.
The 2nd Amendment is inviolable and should remain so as the founders intended.
Personal responsibility for ones actions is where our problem lies.
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Andy Young
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LCDRLES wrote:
They may be lucky, but they aren’t free. They live at the whim of their government.
I spent over 10 years as a Naval Aviator to keep our country free, and I am appalled at how our populace is giving away that freedom.
I’ve spent a lot of time overseas as well and my view of the country’s with draconian gun laws is not as rosy as Andy’s. I live in a part of the country where all you have to do is look south to see how “Lucky” the people are in a country with no private ownership of firearms.
The 2nd Amendment is inviolable and should remain so as the founders intended.
Personal responsibility for ones actions is where our problem lies.


I’m not sure exactly what point you’re trying to make regarding Mexico (I assume that’s the country you’re referring to when you mention looking south). It’s true that Mexico does have extremely restrictive gun laws, but I don’t see how that relates to their problems. Are you saying that if the citizenry there had more guns they would rise up against their government and put in a better one? Certainly official corruption is rampant there. Also, despite the laws, gun violence is a huge problem in Mexico, though the vast majority of guns used in it are brought in illegally from the U.S. Would an armed overthrow of the government lessen the corruption, or solve the violent drug cartel problems? Perhaps there are angles I’m not seeing.

Honestly, for Mexico, the U.S., or anywhere with an even vaguely modern military, I don’t see the “defend ourselves against the government” argument as having any real legitimacy. A well-armed private citizenry would have no hope in a true fight against the military, even with guerilla tactics. Citizens trained and organized into a true resistance army of their own could be a different story, and I have personally observed that in action in three different Latin American countries; however, prior private ownership of arms bore little impact on those conflicts. The primary factors that made those citizen uprisings significant was outside arms support, or, in some cases, turning some government forces (and their arms) to their cause.

Fighting King George’s army with muskets is one thing. How one can even imagine successfully fighting against the modern United States military with private arms is beyond my comprehension.

I don’t think the government is afraid of our guns. We can’t scare them into respecting our wishes with arms. That doesn’t mean we should roll over and let the, do whatever they want, or let the corporations that largely control them (with money) have their way. What scares them and influences them regarding private citizenry is our ability to organize mass unarmed resistance. This has worked many times in our own history, whereas I cannot think of a single time that armed citizen resistance has, since the revolutionary war (and even there we were supported from outside).

Beyond the U.S., look at the Eastern Europe in the late 1980s and into the 1990s: Unarmed citizen uprisings overthrew one the most militant and repressive empires the world has ever seen! My guess is that if Solidarity in Poland, and its analogs in other Eastern European countries had tried an armed uprising, the Soviet Union would have felt justified in crushing them militarily, and could have done so handily.

I think the most honest argument for gun rights is “We like guns”. The rest just looks either disingenuous or hopelessly delusional to me.

I agree with you that U.S. citizens have been alarmingly willing to give up their rights in recent years. To me, the most bothersome examples of this have been the “Citizens United” Supreme Court ruling allowing corporations unlimited donations to political campaigns, certain provisions of the Patriot Act, and unprecedented rampant and invasive surveillance of everyone, everywhere. Resist these we must, though I don’t think our guns help.
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LCDRLES



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
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Location: KINK West Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Mexico my point is that a modern government IS frightened of an armed populace, albeit criminal (the cartels). They have effectively run that country now and have for two decades. I have personally been involved in this problem leaking over our southern border. I was damn glad that I had the freedom to be armed when the incidents occurred, or I wouldn’t be writing this.
Ask any experienced small unit commander what his most difficult task is and I bet, over 90% of them will tell you that it is an armed, motivated native population that knows the country that you will fight in. It has been a hugely difficult war to win for centuries. Look at Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. You better believe that government fears a well armed populace, as they should, as that is how the founders designed our form of government.
Utopian dreams of an all knowing, all wise, all benevolent government taking care of all ours needs is just that, a dream.
My country (USA) was founded by rugged, tough individuals, who yearned for freedom from that same European utopia that is deemed so “Lucky”.
Freedom to live as they wished AND die as they wished.
I’m not willing to give that dream up for unconstitutional promises from any politician espousing a progressive utopia.
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Andy Young
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LCDRLES wrote:
On Mexico my point is that a modern government IS frightened of an armed populace, albeit criminal (the cartels). They have effectively run that country now and have for two decades. I have personally been involved in this problem leaking over our southern border. I was damn glad that I had the freedom to be armed when the incidents occurred, or I wouldn’t be writing this.
Ask any experienced small unit commander what his most difficult task is and I bet, over 90% of them will tell you that it is an armed, motivated native population that knows the country that you will fight in. It has been a hugely difficult war to win for centuries. Look at Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. You better believe that government fears a well armed populace, as they should, as that is how the founders designed our form of government.
Utopian dreams of an all knowing, all wise, all benevolent government taking care of all ours needs is just that, a dream.
My country (USA) was founded by rugged, tough individuals, who yearned for freedom from that same European utopia that is deemed so “Lucky”.
Freedom to live as they wished AND die as they wished.
I’m not willing to give that dream up for unconstitutional promises from any politician espousing a progressive utopia.


Ah, I see now. Very good point, in that the Mexican government is indeed very much afraid of the cartels, which do, to a significant degree, run the country. That said, I’m not sure that these facts help to bolster the argument for gun rights in the United States; if anything, I think invoking the Mexican cartels would make people here more afraid and skeptical of widespread access to guns.

As far as Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq go, those were native populations fighting against outside aggressors, not against their own governments. Apples and oranges.

The Europe that our ancestors fled bears almost no resemblance, culturally or politically, to the Europe of today. That was mostly a rural, agrarian, feudal society, which was a utopia only for a very small upper class. Europe today has a largely urban, industrial, democratic structure, with a relatively even spread of rights and privileges across demographics. Again, apples and oranges.

I certainly acknowledge how important gun rights have been to you for your own defense from cartel violence spilling across the border. Those sound like frightening situations indeed.
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crbnunit
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had about a page and a half rant going here. Decided to go back and delete it and will just say this instead; I don't really care what anyone says or thinks. It is none of their business. It is my God given right to own firearms if I choose to do so. Try to take them away and we are going to have a problem. And not just with me, but with my friends and neighbors as well. It will be ugly. I don't recommend it. I grew up in Texas. Come and Take it.
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LCDRLES



Joined: 13 Mar 2016
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Location: KINK West Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, crbnunit.
Folks with your beliefs are what made this country great.
As a native Texan, I second “Come And Take It”
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VA Maule
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crbnunit, my sentiments exactly nobody's going to get my guns as long as I have ammunition and the strength to use them. That's why I said " If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns " because at the moment these proposed laws( bills) that are moving through the Virginia General ASSembly get signed by Governor Ralph "Black Face " Northam I will become an outlaw!! Along with a whole lot of others.

Furthermore don't think for a second that the rest of the socialist members in your state legislature aren't watching these goings on here in the oldest legislative body in America to see just how to roadmap it right into yours . So get proactively noisy about your rights , because if these useful idiots as Saul Alinsky called them in his subversive book "Rules for Radicals " continue to get elected and out number reasonable conservative minded legislators. I'm fearing history shall repeat itself hence 244 years.
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crbnunit
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job keeping things peaceful VA. Sorry you guys are having to deal with that crap. Alaska is a Constitutional carry state and the left is still trying to back door red flag laws on us. I really have a hard time seeing this end any way but bloody. Hope I'm wrong.
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