Important points in pre-buy

ChugachMan · Post by **ChugachMan** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:09 am

I'm currently considering purchasing a Maule M4-220C, and I was curious if there were any recommendations as to points I should request be given special attention in the pre-buy, especially if the mechanic is not a specialist in Maules. Any feedback would be highly appreciated. Thanks!

gear · Post by **gear** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:08 pm

ChugachMan wrote:I'm currently considering purchasing a Maule M4-220C, and I was curious if there were any recommendations as to points I should request be given special attention in the pre-buy, especially if the mechanic is not a specialist in Maules. Any feedback would be highly appreciated. Thanks!

I'm not an expert but just purchased a M5-235 this month so I had similar questions that you did. Depending on how old the plane is, you'll want to look at the frame so see if there is any corrosion on it. If the fabric has been re-done, find out what process they used to ensure it has been done properly. If the fabric was re-done, most people sand blast the frame and re-paint it - find out if that was done as well.

The only other comment I have is on the engine. The 220 is a Franklin which is no longer made any more. There are all kinds of speculation about the company in Poland reviving this engine and making parts for it. I've emailed them before (when I was considering a Franklin Engine in an aircraft I was looking at) to see if they were building the new engines yet. They said not yet, but they were close. They have been saying that for 3 years now. If the engine has a good history and depending on how many hours are on it, I would not rule out an aircraft because of it. I almost bought one a month ago, but it sold a day before I went to look at it. It had very low hours on it and if the plane would have checked out, I would have bought it. Just keep in mind that if you have a major problem, you might have to wait some time to get parts. They are 1500 TBO.

Good luck.

garth

MauleWacko · Post by **MauleWacko** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:18 am

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:12 am

Fabric and corrosion of structure would be my biggest concerns. Having said that, wouldn't worry too much about the Franklin, there are still plenty of parts out there, in a lot of cases just a little more difficult to contact sellers of same, but there is a lot of serviceable stuff. I would also highly recommend a prepurchase inspection by someone with some Maule knowledge, unless you have a good deal of confidence in seller and he has well documented logs / paperwork? I have an annual going on now on a champ that owner just bought that cosmetically looks new, but will probably have over $8K in first annual just because he didn't have it looked at and seller was less then straightforward with him!! I would rather have a ratty looking airplane that was airworthy, then one like this that looked like a million bucks, but needed lots of work, and it's all airworthiness type stuff that has to be fixed!! In most cases, it's money well spent!! I sell airplanes here myself and try to be as honest as possible, but if circumstance allow, still recommend a prepurchase by someone else just in case I missed something as it never hurts to have another set of eyes look over sale item? And all defects allow for negotiation of price which is name of game?

YELLOWMAULE · Post by **YELLOWMAULE** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:33 am

So Chugach, which M-4 220 is it????
If I remember right, there were only about 190-230 M-4's made. Is this an Alaskan plane or are you brining in one from the States?
Where are you out of/keep the plane?
Good luck!

M5guy · Post by **M5guy** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:22 pm

Be sure to check the lower longerons under the rear passenger seat area on the pilot side. Rain will soak up in fiberglass insult and rust out there. Often the interior vinyl is glued to this longeron so it never gets checked even at annuals. IMHO that should be checked every annual even if you have to reglue it year after year. Also check the lower curved crossover channel which runs approximately across the area under the flap bar. The front fabric wraps around this on the bottom and it too will rust out.

Many early Maules had their headliners fireproofed with salt impregnation. This will leech out and may rust out the front aluminum attach bar at the top of the windshield. This is not easy to inspect either and will require taking the window out so most people don't worry about it too much until it's window replacement time.

The rear lower rudder area and fuselage attach points need to be looked at very closely too. If the plane has lived inside they often are pretty good. If it's been outside alot in a humid or salty area, all bets are off.

Also look closely at all the lower channel steel on the doors. They often rust out over time and need to be rebuilt. On the engine check out muffler for cracks and look at exhaust header gaskets and blow-by problems. Also look at engine mounts for droop and wear and always get the comps on the cyl.

There's alot more but this should get you started. Somebody posted an annual checklist sometime back and if you can find it that would be a good start.

ChugachMan · Post by **ChugachMan** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:25 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies thus far. To YellowMaule, the plane is out in TX, and I'd be keeping it in San Diego until sometime next fall, at which point I'd be looking to fly it back to Anchorage when I move back permanently...

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:01 pm

Check the FAA website and pull up any records they have. 337's etc.

Speedy · Post by **Speedy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:51 am

ChugachMan wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies thus far. To YellowMaule, the plane is out in TX, and I'd be keeping it in San Diego until sometime next fall, at which point I'd be looking to fly it back to Anchorage when I move back permanently...

Hello,

from my experience in buying a Maule M5 220C three years ago, I would strongly recommend involving a mechanic familiar with the engine and aircraft. If it is in Texas that should not be too big of a problem. Call Susan in Jewett, Texas, at (903) 626-5210, she will become your best friend when it comes to getting spare parts for the engine soon anyway (http://www.franklinparts.com) and I bet she knows someone who can inspect it for you. I had an ordinary pre-buy inspection done by a shop at the field where the aircraft was based. They discovered only cosmetics. Of course it is impossible to look inside the engine, but asking the right questions in regard to it's maintenance, the last overhaul, anything unusual, especially if the previous mechanic is available might prevent you from getting into trouble or at least will give you a solid basis for a lower price.
But then it is also up to how much technical knowledge you have yourself. This is my first aircraft and I like it a lot, but I just had all cylinders rehoned and piston rings replaced and many other things after finding metals in the oil because of an improper job at the engine overhaul 350 hrs. ago by the mechanic of the previous owner. The plane just got ready to fly again and I can't wait to see the performance now.
Regards,
Speedy

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:12 am

Realize there is no such thing as a pre buy inspection, it can be as little or as much as the whim of the inspector. You can get your aunt Martha to do a pre-buy, and if she misses major items, you have no recourse.
An annual is a defined term by the FAA, there is a min. list of items that must be inspected, and it requires an I/A or repair station to preform an annual.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:47 pm

I do many pre-buys and it depends on how much money you've got to spend and how comfortable you are with the aircraft. I do a cursory look / check compressions / logbook review, etc for about $400-$500... What I usually recommend is just to do an annual inspection, that way you get thorough inspection, and a fresh annual sign off upon purchase!! I can guarantee that any mechanic familiar with an M4-220 will more than pay for the annual with his list of defects. Of course that's all negotiable with the seller, but seller should be agreeable to fixing ALL airworthiness items, no questions asked, and I can almost guarantee there are some airworthiness issues that if don't get fixed now, will be out of your pocket in future? If seller not agreeable to annual inspection with the labor cost out of your pocket, I'd continue looking elsewhere. An annual will probably cost you 12-16hr labor at whatever going rate is in your area, and is well worthwhile if you can find someone familiar with the Franklin / Maule.

pcbemidji · Post by **pcbemidji** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:19 am

I am looking at a classic M4 Jetasen. This will be my first plane and wonder what the cost for an annual might average on this plane. It is 1960's vintage and in good shape and flown regularly and hangered. Appreciate any input.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:43 am

Basic Annual up here on a Maule in good shape is going to cost you around $1300-$1400 parts and labor... PLUS extra for any defects, airworthiness items that need addressing?