CONFUSED

[kakkenmc]

Flew around Georgia yesterday in 5-15kt winds at 5 different fields. Made several bad landings (I'm hoping it was mostly the crosswinds or shear). several times my rudder seemed incapable of directing the plane on rollout. I used no more than 10 pounds of force (I heard you could stretch the springs if too forceful). My control was erratic. I frequently needed to use light brakes for directional control on grass strip crosswind landings and occassionally needed them taxiing. Is that normal in these fairly light but gusty crosswinds? Should I stomp on the rudders harder?

MX7-235

[a64pilot]

Stomp the rudder pedal harder. Use brakes only after hitting the stop on the rudder pedals. If by stretching the springs you are referring to the tail wheel springs, they are compression springs. You can bottom them out, but you aren't stretching them. In my opinion if it takes differential braking to keep directional control because there is no rudder left, it's time to stop flying and fly another day.

[a64pilot]

And yes it was ugly yesterday. I stopped doing a test flight yesterday around lunch because with the gusty winds you couldn't tell anything. It's even uglier today and tomorrow.
Are you going to Sun-N-Fun?

[210TC]

AGREED,
If you are using brakes to controll your landing, you are an accident waiting for a place to happen?

[Lowflybye]

Do whatever it takes to keep the plane going straight down the runway. If you have to get aggressive on the rudder and take it to the stop then do it, but be smooth and under control with it. The problem with "stomping" the rudder pedal is that it often leads to overcorrection. If you run out of rudder then you must use the brakes, but you should not get on the brakes (for steering) until you have pushed the rudder pedals to the stops.

You will be able to take a higher crosswind from the Right than you will from the Left without running out of rudder authority due to the P-factor. More throttle can help with crosswinds from the right, but ff you add throttle to help correct for a left crosswind you could actually increase your problem. Keep that in mind when choosing the active runway for crosswind landings.

It is not uncommon to use the brakes during taxi in higher winds...the rudder does not have the airflow, ergo authority that it does when operating at flying speeds.

As a64pilot said, the tailwheel springs are compression springs so you cannot "stretch" them by being aggressive on the rudder pedals.

p.s.- if you think you have to be aggressive with the rudder in a Maule on crosswind landings you should try a Stearman.

[a64pilot]

p.s.- if you think you have to be aggressive with the rudder in a Maule on crosswind landings you should try a Stearman.

The connverse is my little C-140 that has at least twice the rudder authority of my Maule, but I have an early model M-6 with the small rudder. The newer M-6's and up apparently have a larger chord rudder than my old one. I don't know, maybe yours is a smaller rudder as well. From what I can tell crosswinds are not something a Maule does well.
How much flap were you using?

[210TC]

This brings up a question?????????????????
I too have the small rudder, can we upgrade too the BIG rudder???
SIZE counts

[Green Hornet]

"Do whatever it takes to keep the plane going straight down the runway"

This IMHO is the most important detail to landing a Maule. If you are not lined up straight with the center line or some other visual point, "GO AROUND" avoid that ground loop! It is a bad idea to try to save a bad approach! Like I have said before put a visual aid marker on your windscreen to assure you are straight.

[Wayne]

Its my opinion that if you learn to use more rudder the better you will be able to fly your maule. The maule will handle and turn much better using more rudder.
Its also my opinion that till you master a wheel landing strong crosswind landings will never go well. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't wheel land a maule! A maule will do a great wheel landing. The strongest wind I landed in was 26kt 90degree from the right in a maule M-4 180V.This was a wheel landing. I would have never tried a full stall landing in that kind of wind.
Back in Dec. 2006 about this same thread was posted on BCP site and MTV in my opinion said it best. I have been flying tail wheel for about 15yrs now and I agree 100% with he's way of crosswind landing. I couldn't say it better my self.

mtv said- Dec.2006

I like Wheel Landings in Maules, as opposed to three point.

If I were to take your description of the accident landing as written, though, it doesn't sound as if you actually DID a proper wheel landing.

You stated that you touched down on the mains then lowered the tail. That can be a recipe for disaster.

In a wheel landing, you should touch on the mains and push the nose down to level the wings, and kill all lift, putting all the weight of the airplane on the main wheels.

Wheel landings can be done at virtually any speed, but I prefer fairly slow, tail low wheel landings. Touch the mains, push the yoke to kill lift, put the weight of the plane on the mains, and steer with the rudders. As the airplane decelerates, elevator effectiveness lessens, and the tail will start coming down. Once the tail starts coming down, you need to PULL the yoke all the way to the aft stop, to pin the tailwheel on the ground. You are now steering with the tailwheel, as opposed to the rudder. The tailwheel, therefore, must be firmly planted on the ground, and not floating.

If you just let the tail come down right after a wheel landing, you increase the angle of attack on the wing, which increases lift, which takes weight off the mains, and the tailwheel, not pinned down, will be light and it will be virtually useless for steering. The rudder is low, and blanketed somewhat by the flaps and fuselage, and it too will be essentially useless. You need either an effective rudder OR a firmly planted tailwheel to steer.

In MOST wheel landings, you should NOT have to use differential braking. If you feel you are having to use differential braking, I strongly suggest you get some dual instruction in wheel landings from a very experienced Maule pilot.

Let me emphasize: If you feel you have to use differential braking for many wheel landings, you really need to evaluate your technique.

MTV said,

Some good posts on technique. Wheel landings are not and should not be mysterious as some CFI's seem to want to make them.

Remember, just because a person holds a CFI and they are tailwheel endorsed, does not necessarily imply that they are even vaguely qualified to teach in a tailwheel airplane, even though legally they can.

As to wheel landings being looked down on in the 40's--I thought it was the other way around. Ever see a P-51, P-40, P-47, C-46, C-47, Grumman G-21, etc three point land?? Probably won't either. Those were all 40's airplanes, and you won't find anyone who flies any of them that regularly does three points.

The reason for that, though is that none of those airplanes had STEERABLE tailwheels. If the tailwheel doesn't steer, there really isn't any reason to get in a hurry to put it on the ground, is there?

Maules wheel land just fine.

I have used differential braking in landings for years--WHEN ABSOLUTELY necessary. In otherwords, when all steering inputs have failed to remedy the situation, and I'm still convinced I can safely land the plane (the advice to go around if it gets ugly is VERY appropriate), I might use differential braking, as otherwise noted, once the wing is pretty much done flying. And, that only on certain airplanes, really. The Big Cessna taildraggers are ones where, once they are slow, using brakes may be necessary.

My point earlier was that brakes can turn into a crutch, and my experience is that if a person is on the brakes they probably have given up steering, and that's not good. Get used to using differential braking on landings, and sooner or later you'll have a problem


MTV said,

I don't completely disagree with your suggestion to use whatever works best for you, but there IS good reason to MASTER both techniques.

There are situations (and this also tends to be airplane specific to some degree) where wheel landings are really the only safe way to land one of these things.

Try your three point technique in a REALLY gusty crosswind sometime, especially if there are windshears on short final, and close to the surface.

If you slow that thing down to accomplish a three point, you stand a good chance of wrecking it by stalling it close to the ground due to wind shears or gusts.

A wheel landing is really the only safe way to make that work out, because you can carry the extra airspeed that is mandated by the scenario right into the touchdown.

And, if your first wheel landing in two years is in that sort of scenario.......

Here's a link to BCP form on these posts:
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/p ... c&start=20

[kakkenmc]

Thanks, guys. Lots to ponder. One thing I'm going to do is unlock my tailwheel and make sure I know what hitting the stops feels like. It was very obvious in my Champ which had much lighter pressures but greater travel.

Are you going to Sun-N-Fun?

I am awaiting family surgery and work schedule. I went two years ago. Went to Oshkosh this year.

[kakkenmc]

Its also my opinion that till you master a wheel landing strong crosswind landings will never go well

I liked wheel landings in my Champ. Ray Maule is the only instructor I've had and he wasn't interested. Anyone know any Maule instructors near Columbus, GA? I may have to experiment.

[Rocketman]

You don't need to man handle a maule. Remember, any action requires an equal and opposite reaction.
In time it will become natural to you. Through the eye the mind tell the others what to do. You'll notice that you'll be making the necessary inputs to maintain direction control and not even think about it. Same with the differential breaking, its just another part of the control system, you'll see.
I did hundreds of takeoffs and landings on a boomerang shaped grass strip in an M4-220. It was either turning out of a wind, or into a wind at about the time the tail wanted to come down.
For me, wheel landings are normal landings. As long as the tail is flying you have control. Three point landings are for short field work.

[210TC]

You will find on this site many different beliefs about how to land a Maule. One whole section is devoted to it.
I on the other hand would never wheel land a maule in high winds, only a full three point.
Fly your Maule and do what feels good.
Find the section that all of us contributed to on landings. There was even a survey taken.

[a64pilot]

Now this is an opinion, so take it as that. Ray, and his father before him discouraged wheel landings because the strong point of a Maule is short field work. An average pilot wheel landing a Maule doesn't land any shorter than a Cessna. That's not the way to showcase your product. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

[210TC]

For pete's sake, I would like to see what Ray Maule would write about this subject. A64, you live close by, do you think you could get him to contribute?
Also, look at "To Wheel Land or Not" under "Flying Technique"