ground loop

[cleach]

Well after only 3 weeks of ownership of my beautiful, like new M4 but having had 28 hours and 190 landings I ground looped it. I tore up the wing tip. The parts to fix it are on the way. I can't believe how easily and quickly it looped around. People talk about how difficult it is to fly Maules but detailed differences with supercubs and Huskys are not really described. Maules have heavy tails. Are they more prone to ground loops? Do they also handle less cross winds than the others?

[iceman]

I ground looped my M4 once at Columbia on landing... got a quartering tail wind after touchdown.. started right and could not get it back straight... stomped on left rudder but once you pass a certain point it's going around.. In this instance there is about a 3 foot berm from asphalt to dirt... if it wasn't for the berm I would have just gone out on the dirt but when the left wheel went down the berm it was lower and wing dragged... damage was substantial but repaired better than factory new... another incident at Battle Mt. Nevada... 20 MPH gusting to 25 from the right... thought I had it made when a gust lifted the right wing and dragged the left wingtip.... all I can say is get as slow as you can on short final.. I never have a problem when crossing the numbers under 60... also if you start to lose it, and you have to be quick in recognizing it....go to power not brakes or rudder alone... power is your friend....

[MikeW]

Cleach, sorry about your accident. Brush it off though. Your in good company. Once your bird is fixed I'd recommend getting someone you trust to just watch you fly for a session or two until you feel your back up to speed. The M4 three points so nicely you might think about sticking with that for now and using sod and dirt runways for practice until you get your confidence back.

Good luck!

Mikew

[pilot]

Just curious, but do you remember what you did with the ailerons when this was happening? Also how fast were you going and did you dump flaps upon touchdown? Not trying to point fingers, just hoping to learn from your experience. Glad all damage was minor!

[cleach]

Here is some detail on my ground loop. My airstrip is 6500' altitude and 30' wide and paved. That day the winds were light with just a 2 or 3 knot crosswind. The runway is 0.5 degrees downhill. Density altitude was about 7100'. I was 60 knots on short final with one notch of flaps. The stall light came on just as I made a 3 point touchdown. The nose pointed about 20 degrees to the left so bearing in mind the runway is only 30' wide, I kicked hard right rudder. After 3 nights of replaying the event in my mind, I figured out that I held right rudder in too long. Of course I should have punched right rudder and immediately let off when I sensed the correction turn begin. I wasn't dancing on the rudders as I was trained to do. It was as the FAA likes to say "pilot's failure to maintain directional control." I should say that I have 1200 hours, have owned multiple aircraft including my current Piper Dakota, Rans S12S and others in the past like ultralights and a gyrocopter. Flying a taildragger is a lot, lot harder than a triclye gear.

[aero101]

The Maule is a short coupled T/W airplane... Biggest trick in Xwinds or any landing for that matter is to keep it straight longitudinally during rollout... It is critical to stay ahead of aircraft, and make those feet work as needed. Keep it straight, keep it straight!! Once it starts around with you, if not on throttle quick enough for a successful go around, you're in trouble. Sometimes, you're better off staying out of throttle as it can also just make things worse, it's a fine line... I think max demonstrated xwind in flight manual is about 15MPH across runway which is a good limit until you have lots of experience in xwinds. I have landed with 25MPH winds gusting across nose, it's always challenging and can certainly get your attention, but wouldn't suggest that for someone with low Maule experience in same kind of conditions. If approach doesn't look good, go around. I like to plan for the go around and plan on landing only if it looks good at end of approach. 20 Degrees off nose straight in hindsight, probably should have been a go around. That's quite a ways from straight and could be troublesome to save at touch down speeds. A dab of power holding airbourne while straightening may have worked as well. If wind gets too bad, sometimes best bet is just to go find another field, taxiway, or someplace into wind to get it on ground and wait out the WX... It seems that winds are a factor in most of the maule incidents I see up here... Sometimes, it's time well spent with an instructor that's comfortable in the wind, searching out runways with unfavorable winds and working on technique... And even then, we're all open to the tricks mother nature can throw at us occasionally, sometimes without a good end result!!!

[TomD]

I think most of us have been there at one time or another. Some w/ bent plane others with just an elevated heart rate. I have maneuvered between my share or runway lights.

Probably nothing I can tell you that you have not read in TW "how to" books or talking to other TW pilots.

Time and practice!!! And, yes, TW birds are a bit more challenging.

Hang in there.

TD

[Brenton C]

To quote a friend of mine, "there's nothing the Maule can't do well, (edit...) EXCEPT refuse an invitation to a ground loop."

I'm afraid I've had one myself, in July. I came in steeper than usual, full flaps, wheeled it on. I guess I "came late to the dance" over correcting left rudder, then wayyy over correcting right rudder. Looks like I grabbed some right brake too (inspecting the runway after the fact).

Started to head off the runway, gave power, didnt help mucch, and off I went.

Lost the left wheel and dented a strut in the ditch that parallels the runway.

The plane flies like a dream. It's just the landings that become sudden nightmares.

[chris erasmus]

Sorry to hear about your incident, but rest assured you are not a lone member of this club . Rumour is that there are only kinds of Maule pilots, those who have groundlooped and those who are going to ground loop.
I actually spend last weekend experimenting with X wind techniques and found that you run out of aileron control, fairly quickly when applying the cross control technique. I try and come in as slow as possible, hanging on the prop using power to pull me straight and I usually get away with an acceptable X wind landing. I should actually call it a survive able x wind landing

Chris

[Brenton C]

Praise be to St. Belford these planes can fly so slow as they do.

I'm very eager to do some lessons with Rick Geiger-- where h@ll is my passport? It should be here any day!

[captnkirk]

Cross wind limit on the airbus is 29 knots the company further restricts that to 15 knots in less than 3/4 mile vis, so 12 to 15 knots in a Maule is big. Also we don't use a typical wing down approach until the flare so timing has to been spot on to get a good landing of course we're not concerned about ground loops just a smooth landing. The secret is when that wheel touch's is to have 0 drift if not the load is sent thru the gear to the plane and you spill your coffee. When I was a young pup and was learning to fly a tail dragger my dear father (and instructor) would wear me out if I had any drift. The point is when the wheel touches down it becomes a pivot point and that long arm of the fuselage may have more leverage than the rudder can overcome. Pavement has a better grip than grass so it only makes mister toads wild ride worse. I got lucky on my ground loop I was able to get the cub back in the air before I hit any thing. It took an hour though ( and low fuel) before I could build up the nerve to try again. Sorry you bent your plane I know that hurts glad that no one was hurt. I know I'm still learning, flight time is just a number we all have valuable lessons to share thanks

[wtxdragger]

Flying a taildragger is a lot, lot harder than a triclye gear.

But, oh so much fun.

I have found that the Maule is a hyperactive plane.With the constant wind we have in West Texas, it will never happily settle in to a hands off approach. My M7 is always trying to fly with the breeze. I'm not griping, just saying.

I had my very near loop at the Maule Fly-In in Llano this summer. Slight crosswind landing into an unfamiliar grass strip. Too much speed due to worries about fence clearance, and then a killing of power too high above strip, again worried about getting stopped. Wind from Pilot side quartering grabbed the tail on my second bounce and started me left. It was grass, so I was able to keep it from a complete loop. The plane slid to a stop at about an 89 degrees angle from the runway.

Flew the second day and got a sweet second place in STOL competition behind 'ol Ross.

Don't quit her, she will give you some of the best rides around. Just know that she will buck.

[sbmaule]

What Aero said, well put.

I'm also a big fan of: landing as slow as possible, always full flaps.
Wheel landings, rudder up in clean air equals better rudder authority longer into rollout.
And as mentioned, maintain a connection between brain and feet by dancing on the pedals thru short final and rollout

Captnkirk, please accept my apology for being such a jerk in responding to
your collapsed gear post awhile back. Howd it work out?, we're you able to repair?

[wtxdragger]

As Brenton C said

Greetings gentlemen and (you all too few) gentlewomen flyers,

I'm now about 3 months into ownership of my first airplane, a Maule M5-210C.

Whilst the insurance company asked for a mere 10 hours training . . . I would have destroyed the aircraft if cut loose at 10. I havent counted...its probably over 25 hours and counting.

Here are some thoughts so far: cross wind? Holy Carp! This is no 172 in a cross wind! 3 kt, and careful not to pirohette into a ground loop!

Suddenly my least favorite song is "wind beneath my wing". Yeah, you are the wind beneath my wing that wants to flip me over!

Apart from death defying 3 kt cross wind landings, i am just thrilled with what a sweet sweet airplane this is. I expect this is a love affair tha will last. Or it will kill me. Like any passionate love affair I suppose.

In the air this plane just flies. And if this is "flying", then I can tell you from 192 hours in a 172, that that's more like being in a coma. Ok, I dramatize. The M5 is tight and responsive like a sports car. It's cozy, It feels solid, itz's fun.

I had a fantasy when buying it that this would b my one plane, but I think it might be true. Itz's plenty fast, slows down plenty slow, feels as stable as it does responsive, and once I master these pesky landings, I'm convinced it's a safer ride than, say, the Long Ez I'd Long Dreamed about!

Even though this plane is a 1974 model, it is so pretty, I dare not post a picture of it--admiring comments at the home airport frm young ladies and old men alike begin to make me a bit uncomfortable.

Ok, the latter make me uncomfortable, and the former make me perilously hopeful.

I'm not usd to this kind of admiration, frankly. I don't don't quite get whats so sexy about this plane. But maybe my own enthusiasm is a hint!

For you single gentlemen may I suggest that as part of your standard survival gear, you include some non-perishable eadibles, a blanket and a bottle,or two of wine?

Imcan hardly wait to take my fiance to a scenic mountain strip for a picnic in the rockies . . . And that's for sure nothing I ever thought of when I was fixated on a Long EZ, and it's requirement for a longgggggg paved runway.

So the adventure continues.

I thank those on the list for encouraging me toward the Maule when it was in the consideration phase. A welcome difference from, say, the Grumman folks whose "piss off and die" attitude, by contrast .. . failed to inspire me.

I had to repost.

[Wyflyer]

The parts to fix it are on the way.

I'll be curious to see how this plays out.