Maule M5 in my future

helmetfire · Post by **helmetfire** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 pm

Great forum!!!

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:18 pm

Hi there and welcome,
I bought a '78 M-5-235C a couple of years ago. Also with an IFR stack. It's a great airplane, and I really enjoy flying it.

However, it had sat around for a couple of years prior to my purchasing and now I'm in the middle of overhauling the engine due to a ground-down camshaft lobe caused by corrosion. My advice would be to very carefully examine the engine. That's a very small amount of hours for an engine that old. It could be that the engine's in great shape, but that's the sort of thing you'll want to find out before you buy.

montana maule · Post by **montana maule** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:14 pm

I had the same problem with a Lycoming that had set a lot. I can almost guarantee you will have lifter/cam problems. Take a couple of cylinders off and do a good visual inspection.

helmetfire · Post by **helmetfire** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:14 pm

Delete

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:01 pm

When was the last time the oil was changed?

If the oil has been in the engine awhile, either change it or drain about three quarts out and grab a sample after about three quarts have drained into a test bottle and send it to a lab for analysis. If the owner has a history of oil analysis mo betta!

I use Blackstone Laboratories
416 E. PETTIT AVE. FORT WAYNE, IN 46806
(260) 744-2380
www.blackstone-labs.com

If there is a lot of Iron or Chromium you may want to require a very close look at the engine before popping for this bird.

My 1977 M5-235C had a lot of "barn" time, but the J1A5D was just fine.

kbbell · Post by **kbbell** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:08 am

My 1977 M-5 sat for 9 years. We've been testing the oil for 8 years with no problems. If you don't buy it for 35k, someone will. Get a set of Aqua 2400s for it.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:31 am

If current owner won't let you pull off cylinder for inspection, I'd wonder reason why? Not a big deal, would suggest pull one of middle jugs so you can see more cam on each side with mirror. Engine overhaul not cheap, and cam is pretty much what will drive it... If you don't have several oil samples and analysis results, just taking one sample won't tell you much as you need to monitor trend over period of time to be effective unless cam is totally shot... Cam could be in great condition too, depending upon humidity of internal engine, location of airplane, whether engine started to circulate oil (not a good thing), outside air temps engine regularly run in, etc, etc... I've seen engines not run for 20yrs that were good, and engines run little in 5yrs that were destroyed internally. Good luck in your purchase!

Andy Young · Post by **Andy Young** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:32 am

Do check it out carefully, but it seems to me that if the rest of the plane has no major issues, the absolute worst case scenario would put you at $55,000 ($35k for the plane, $20k for engine overhaul). That's the worst case, and it's still not that bad. By checking it out carefully though I mean a FULL annual-type inspection. To do it properly should take at least a full day, and include removing the floor, all the inspection panels, etc. Anything less and you could miss somethine major (and very expensive). Kbbell is right; someone will grab it at that price, though they may wish they hadn't if they find it needs engine work AND has corrosion issues in the airframe or some such thing.

rjb · Post by **rjb** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:52 pm

I can not resist any more.

If you have not talked to Jeremy, www.mauleak.com, or gone up to Angwin, 2O3, from KKIC to spend a couple of hours just talking with him, I think you have not done due diligence on the purchase of a Maule.

He may know the complete history of the plane and, even if he doesn't, you definitely want to be acquaintances. I bought my plane in 2006 new through him and maybe I've got extra special support through him, but I doubt it, because I have seen him give that support to others. Maybe things will always be great and you will never have need any help, encouragement, or advice, but I sure have taken advantage of Jeremy on all those issues.

By the way, it's not just the expense of the overhaul, it is the time. If you think 3 months, you probably won't be too disappointed while paying insurance/tiedown/hangar fees and eating up the time until your next medical.

I haven't been atracted to any back country near my base, South County, but I can see that strips in the Eastern Sierras are a little bit nearer for you. I am jealous of Oregon's position on beach landing, but, after my last trip (to CYUB) , I realize that my tailwheel needs to float on the sand as well as the mains.

I was really happy with my 8.5s when I went to Gravelly Valley. I have yet to do Idaho sand bars but Baja Mexico and Canada had no need except I would have felt a lot better in an emergency landing. Bush wheels and extended gear are lipstick on a pig for my 180 which I love dearly but I do no think I have the horsepower to take advantage of for takeoff.

I am a sightseer so the journey is the point not the destination. My wife wants to get there so anything that affects speed such as larger tires, gear without fairings is a negative. I told her to get her own PPL so she could get her Cirrus. (Hell no, I have no idea how we could pay for it.) She thought that was too much work and too much restriction on her drinking. She does ride with me often and is very supportive, but I do think about what changing anything does to my cruise speed.

helmetfire · Post by **helmetfire** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:19 pm

Delete

rjb · Post by **rjb** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:54 pm

A full annual or 100 hours takes me about 8 hours of removing and reinstalling screws and nuts (the FBO IA/mechanics allow me to assist) and 15 minutes taking out front seats and 30 minutes putting front seats back during which I need a few minutes of help positioning each seat. Get some 3 inch or wider duct/gorilla tape for dealing with the wing roots to save the aggravation of 2 1/2 inch requiring multiple passes. Be sure to look up Jeremy's instructions for dealing with the seats.

Taking it apart and putting it back together is within my comfort level and I get a very good idea of how the plane is doing - maybe this is an option for you as well - sure does save a lot of money.

I strongly recommend VGs and elevator gap seals. Jut as useful as the VGs is an engine monitor. I have a JPI EDM 800; the fuel flow transducer, once give the right constant, is reassuringly accurate and the manifold pressure and rpm readouts are so much better than the analog gauges. Display and data logging of each cylinders temperature and EGT seems to be an obvious thing for a chance of detecting engine problems early.

I got a 11-05917 EBC 406AP ELT WHIP ANT USA from Aircraft Spruce which was a relatively easy replacement of the previous EBC unit - you'll need the installation instructions from Maule. If you are going to fly in remote areas, I would consider this a necessity.

I believe a Maule should have a skylight and swingout window patrol doors. I think the patrol doors are not that hard a retrofit. I don't open the skylight except for traffic, cloudy days, and the little night flying I do, but it sure provides great attachment points for my camcorder.

Tempest fine wire spark plugs are also a nice replacement. I run Elite 20w-50 and add a pint of Avblend on each change of oil at 50 hours for the last 2 years. I have Blackstone lab reports for all but one of the early oil changes and Blackstone thinks the engine is doing just fine (900 hrs).

N9951's lipstick is a Reiff engine preheater. I get a kick of calling from home and turning it on, the few days of the year South County is below 40F.

My understanding that if you have bushwheels and do a lot of asphalt landings, it is very important wearwise that you land as slow as possible. Maybe the cost of an Alpha AOA would be offset by increased longevity of the tires.

helmetfire · Post by **helmetfire** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Rjb, thanks for all the info!

Got the first insurance quote from AOPA, Global is $1892 for a $40K hull...hopefully get one a little lower but happy its under the $2K mark, we'll see.

kbbell · Post by **kbbell** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:57 am

Get a quote from Avemco, too. They were the best when I had zero float time in my M5.

AndrewK · Post by **AndrewK** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:25 am

rjb wrote:N9951's lipstick is a Reiff engine preheater. I get a kick of calling from home and turning it on, the few days of the year South County is below 40F.

Which pre-heater are you running? My plane had one installed and if I recall correctly the heating elements are plugged in to the CHT probe holes so I am curious how I'll make an JPI or EI engine monitor work with this setup or if the cylinder head part of the pre-heater is going to have to go.

Back to the topic: if you are an EAA member also get an insurance quote through their website, I got a very reasonable quote from them this last time around.

rjb · Post by **rjb** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:59 am

I have a Reiff standard system. It doesn't use the CHT probe holes.
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm#System Summary

I'll give the EAA website insurance quote a try but Avemco has always been high and last year was way high (and I didn't get my free cap for requesting a quote). AOPA wouldn't even quote in 2006. It will take a very significant price difference for me to switch though (Gustafson has treated me very nicely.)

Maule M5 in my future

Maule M5 in my future

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