3-point seat belts too short

[yzpilot]

I help a friend take care of his M5 and he just installed the 3-point belt kit #fdc-6400-568-3.

The length of the belts is okay for me, but I use all of the available belt on the spool when I reach for the flap handle.

My friend who has to span a slightly longer distance around his waist doesn't have enough belt on the spool to reach the handle. He has to lean forward extending the belt all the way then shrug the belt off his shoulder side ways and continue to lean forward.

He chaulked it up to needed to lose some weight, but this weekend I had another friend in the airplane who is really not that large and he also didn't have enough belt.

The mechanic who installed the belts said he reviewed the drawings and verified that he installed the parts in the correct location. He also said the mounting points that sometimes need to be welded on were already present in our airframe. He also called Maule and explained the issue and said they didn't have any good ideas.

We've explored rewebbing the belts, but that stinks, buying new belts and immediately having to have them rewebbed.

I've looked around the internet and found a seat belt extender for fat people to use on airliners, but there are several different buckle types and I can't figure out for sure which (if any) would work with this belt.

We had a mid-90s M7 around up until a few weeks ago and the belts in that plane were fine. The M7 was sold. I wish we could take a look at it and make a few measurements to figure out what's different.

Anyone else have this issue? Anyone found a solution?

[Hottshot]

The M5 seats are a little taller in the rear if I remember, also there was two lengths of belt (the ones in my 180 hp maule had to much slack) now current is perrrrfect

[northern guide]

I'm a "Big" guy too and my seatbelts are too short as well! I buckle-up and pull the lap part as tight as I can stand, then I can just reach the flap handle! It is a pain. I was wondering about that extended flap handle... maybe as a fix, but it a $500 bill as well! even just six inches more of belt would be enough.

[Henry L. Heaberlin]

Yes, I ran into the same issue when I upgraded the Pilot's seat in my M5-235. The new belts have a better intertial reel setup, but they are too short as provided. My solution (aggravating, but necessary) was to send the buckle side of the belt (short length in center of the aircraft) out to a certified belt repair station and have a longer length of the same webbing stitched in to replace the factory unit's webbing. That was a year or more ago. You would have thought that Maule would have responded with a fix by now....

[maules.com]

There are different 3 point belt lengths in front and back since 1986 when it was mandated that all occupants must have an individual belt.
The M5s had a shared rear seat belt. Lap only.
The rear 3 point may be longer than the front, in which case Maule may be able to exchange your new unused belts.
The M5 had a lot of foam rubber in the base and back. This foam can easily be replaced with thinner but better conforfoam which gives more headroom, more leg room and more seatbelt effective length.

[TomD]

I added a "booster" seat so I could see over the cowling better and reaching the flap handle and the fuel selector became an issue.

I sent the reel to http://www.aircraftbelts.com/ and they re-webbed it with the longer specification.

Price was really reasonable and fast turn around.

Cheers,

TD

[formerpacerdriver]

Speaking of booster seats, I'm 5'6" tall and when flying in my new M-6-235 I have to run the seat all the way forward. While taxing, I pull up on the v-brace to sit up far enough to see while performing S-turns.

I thought I'd just have to get a foam cushion (Booster Seat) like in the old Pacer, or maybe pay to rebuild the seat with more loft, but yesterday noticed the seat & back actually drops when moving it forward the last notch. I tested it a few times to make sure I wasn't seeing things. It appears the rear seat bracket passes the highest point in its arc and starts descending before the seat reaches the last notch.

Has any other short guy experimented extending or rebuilding the rear seat bracket? (I bet there's some paperwork that'll have to be done, too.) Probably faster/cheaper to sit on a cushion, but it got me curious.

Secondly and more to the point of this thread, I'd like to put in "Y-style" or yoke style inertial reel shoulder belts. Has anyone worked out a top mounting point for the shoulder yoke that FAA will buy off? There's a beefy tube in the ceiling just behind the seats, but it appears to be too close to give the right angle for the belt. Suggestions?

[aero101]

There are several options on 'Y' type belts, either clamped or welded to bracketts at the tube just above and aft of front seats. They all require field approvals as I know of nothing 'Approved' for the Maules, but the field approval pretty straight forward process.... Did you purchase your new Maule locally? Is that the Red M6 that was over at international?

[formerpacerdriver]

Thanks for the input on mounting. I'm planning on the paperwork.

Yes, this one came from the Fai. float pond, White with Red (some paint cracking). Lots of extra stuff in with the deal, some of which has become barter or sale items to fund upgrades.

D.

[maules.com]

Actually, Maule have a certificated bracket that clamps to the cross tube for a 4 point inertia system.
A word of warning I read many years ago from a trauma surgeon.
He suggested that the 3 point was safer because at the sudden stop, the upper body moves forward first, thus tightening the lower hip belt tight and firm across the bone structure.
The 4 point however causes internal damage as when the upper body goes forward it pulls the buckle up into the stomach area and the lower belts no longer hold the bone structure tight.
When you get in the seat at beginning of a flight, you tighten the belt, however the cushioning depresses and belt is no longer tight.
At a time when attention is elsewhere dealing with a crash, inadvertant stall etc, would one reach down and cinch up the two hip belts??

[MauleWacko]

[formerpacerdriver]

MauleWacko, thanks for the howdy. Maule flies cross country easier - Piper Pacer feels more twitchy - always seem to have to work to keep it on course (like herding somewhat-compliant cats?). Maule power is seductive (+85 HP), though I'm not sure I have skill enough to make use of it yet. Big Maule flaps are a wonder. I think the Pacer has more rudder authority (slips to landing), though that may be lack of familiarity in the Maule too. I'll keep learning.

Jeremy, re: 4 point harness - I don't dispute your point about the benefits of the 3-point tightening the lapbelt when in a crash, but I know my personal perclivities. 2 issues: My current shoulder reel is finicky (won't roll out without coaxing) and the webbing soft, so it doesn't roll in and out smoothly, making me have to twist around the belt to get the flap handle off the floor; Second, knowing I can force my way around the belt as above, I can see my passenger and I knocking heads as we come to an abrupt stop, both of us sliding around our shoulder belts to the inboard side.

I'm used to the 4-point system, so will rely on my proper training and skill (~smirk~) to tighten seatbelts prior to touchdown. It's a good idea for any landing. I'll call/email Maule and get the certified mount. Thanks!

[andy]

Maule flight replaced my single lap belt across the rear sling seat with two 3-point belts with inertial shoulder belt reels. I don't like the proximity of the inertial reel to the rear seat passengers' heads. The position of the inertial reel might have been affected by the quick release rear sling seat modification that I installed a while ago but the reel is right next to your head when you're sitting in the rear seat. Slamming your head into the reel would be a big problem in a crash. I like the non-inertial shoulder belt with a metal buckle with a slot that sandwiches between the lap belt buckles and has a manual adjustment. This is the kind of arrangement that is in the Cessna A185F that I fly at work. Are there any STCs for Maules with this arrangement?

[AndrewK]

...I like the non-inertial shoulder belt with a metal buckle with a slot that sandwiches between the lap belt buckles and has a manual adjustment. This is the kind of arrangement that is in the Cessna A185F that I fly at work. Are there any STCs for Maules with this arrangement?

I am going to bring this old thread up because I have the same exact question as Andy about non-inertial shoulder belts for the rear seats. Anyone have any insight since it was originally posted?

I recently received the airframe bits and pieces to retrofit my M5 with rear shoulder harnesses and Maule provided the part numbers for the individual seatbelts but I cannot find a good source for the seatbelts and Maule has gone quiet on me after requesting a quote for purchasing the belts through them.

Back to the question: I have heard a few folks express their concern about the proximity of the inertial reel to a rear passenger's head so if able I would prefer to explore the non-inertial route but will get what the TC calls for if necessary (and able to find someone to take my money, in exchange for seatbelts that is )

[maules.com]

The inertia reel/head proximity is close to the same in front as in rear seats.
A non inertia reel 3 point system will be much less $$ than inertia type.
Depending on the approval trail you follow to weld in the Maule approved separate seatbelt fuselage fittings, your IA could add in the belts you buy with justification description.