MX7-180A

[starcom]

Hello:

New guy on the block. I am amazed at all the experience here. Been browsing thru the sight and the knowledge I have gained about Maules is amazing! Really has helped solidify my decision to put an offer on a MX7-180A. The thought of tricycles doesn't sit well with me!

I have looked at all of the various models and I think the 180A will be the right choice for now considering my location in MI. Majority of the flying will be done here in the Midwest. I would like to take the family out West to some higher elevation terrain and wondered what peoples' opinions are on the performance of the 180A at higher density altitudes and the safety of it. I wish they had turbo-chargers!

I am very intrigued with the Maule. I've been looking at them on and off for about 13-years and I think it is time to pull the trigger:)

I have spent the last 21+ years flying the DC-9, B727-200 and CV-640. It seems all the fun of flying has just about disappeared. Doing this stuff day in day out and so controlled really isn't what the career books said. I just keep going back to the days I was flying a Citabria and a J3 on floats. Something magical about dragging your tail or just splashing down and swimming. That was pure flying. A grin from ear to ear!

Reality hit me a few weeks ago when my youngest asked if she would ever fly with me. All these years and my kids really haven't flown with me. My oldest just recently moved out. She is fortunate and is the only one who has done some flying with me. I use to throw her on my lap and strap her in the Citabria. She loved it! My other kids just know their dad is an airline pilot and flies to Mexico and Canada a lot.

So browsing thru a bunch of ads for maules I stumbled across a 180A. I decided to call the guy and the guy helping with the sale is a fellow airline pilot I trained with 22-yrs ago. I'm thinking destiny, wife thinks I'm nuts and it is a midlife crises!

I submitted an offer and waiting for a reply. I just can't get it out of my mind the thought of throwing the family in and go exploring, camping the works:) The vision is more exciting than the thought of jumping in the DC-9 and flying across the country again!

I am hoping I can somehow get into aerial photography and filming and cautiously some backwoods and get out of the air carrier business.

If anybody could give some advise on the MX7-180A and its capabilities, things to look for I would greatly appreciate it or talk some sense into me. I'm sure my wife would appreciate that one!

Thank you in advance for your input.

Sorry for the long post!

[NZMaule]

Go for it! I fly the MX7-180B, relatively cheap to operate and can easily get away with wife, 2 kids and enough gear for a weekend. Have to watch C of G envelope as weight gets up as it's pretty hard to get near MAUW and remain inside C of G while carrying back seat passengers (at least in my model).

[Hogy59]

I've got a MX-7-180B. It is my first tailwheel, and I've had it about 5 years and 600 hours now. I love the airplane. My experience is mostly big jets, too, with just a few prop hours before I bought this plane. Things to think about:

1) I haven't flown any other tailwheel, but I'm told the Maule is a different beast to fly, especially in crosswinds. It took me quite a while to get comfortable.

2) Easy airplane to work on. Very simple, straight forward. A few gotcha's. Read the stuff on the mufflers and tailpipes, or else you'll be replacing them. Keeping the tailwheel rigged is another one. My chattered for the first 200 hours till I read the instructions . I still have the Maule tailwheel, and it does fine, now that it is set correctly.

3) Lots of useful load. Mine is just over 1100 lbs. 4 adults and main tanks full is no problem. 2 people, luggage, and all tanks full. No problem. CG is not an issue. The rear seat doesn't have a lot of head room in the MX-7 model. People over about 5'5" or so will hit their head on the ceiling. I believe the M-7 has more headroom in the rear seat. Leg room in the back seat is OK.

4) Autogas STC is an excellent option, if you can get auto fuel with no ethanol in your area, and you fly the plane regularly. Not sure I would want the plane sitting for months with mogas in the tanks. That's about all I burn in mine, unless I'm on the road somewhere.

5) I've had mine up to 13500 ft with 3 people, (winter) and took it from Tennessee to the west coast and back. Highest field was LVS, 6900 ft or so. 2 people and luggage, no problem. Takeoff roll about 1500 ft. at max weight, and that was just letting it fly off of the runway. Typical ground roll at 500' DA is about 500 ft with 2 people and 40 gallons.

6) I burn about 8 GPH goofing off, or about 9.5-10 going cross country. Mine has a constant speed prop, heavy duty gear, and 8.00 tires, I plan on about 115 KTAS at 75% power. I think the 180A may be a little slower, from what I've read.

The Maule is a wonderful plane to take 4 people to dinner or 2 people camping. Getting 4 people and camping gear and luggage in could be a tight fit.

Hope this helps. I'm sure you'll have many other opinions here. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

[starcom]

Thank you for the replies!

Very insightful!

This is why I joined this site.

I just can't see buying a tricycle.

How do you experienced guys deal with the Maule in the winter as far as de-icing? Does the glycol harm the skin or do some of you guys buy a few gallons of windshield solvent and use a sprayer in a pinch? It seems like the high pressure could also do some damage!

Do Maules have a good heating system for the winter traveling?

Thanks again for your help!

[starcom]

Another question for you experienced Maule drivers.

Everything I have read about this airplane indicates it glides like a '69 Buick.

What is the general consensus on an engine failure? Do you guys recommend landing clean? From what I am gathering, landing with flaps 48 requires power due to the high sink rate and you are entering the region of reverse command.

I do realize what you have underneath you will make the final determination for you as far as configuration.

What can the Maules handle as far as x-winds go comfortably? I see the numbers show 12kts. What do you experienced drivers feel comfortable with and where the borderline is? Do you guys recommend landing clean and a wheelie or when you are loaded land 3-points.

Thank you, I do appreciate your insight!

[Kirk]

Wow, lot's of questions. I made a similar re-entry into light aircraft about 7 years ago getting my M5-235C. Have had a blast with it and found it fairly easy to handle. I had loads of tailwheel time from a previous life.

It all came back, but still keeps my attention. If I haven't flown it in 2 weeks or so, I try to do some circuits to limber up the lower limbs and about 5 miles out from landing, settle my feet onto the pedals nicely and say out loud; "OK feet, time to do your stuff!" Passengers love that.

As far as de-ice; unless you don't have it hangared ( I sure hope you will) it just won't come up that often. Most places I would have needed it away from home, the charge for putting it in a hangar the night before was close to the same charge as engine preheat. And some FBOs are downright scary on their preheating methods.

There are another few threads on de-icing somewhere. Search and check those out. For me, I sweet talked a de-ice truck driver out of about 5 gallons of Type 1 at one of our stations. Type 1 should be heated, I use a 1 gallon stainless garden sprayer with the nozzles drilled out slightly. I've heated it by keeping it in the hotel room with me then running a hot bath tub when I get up.

Rough on the hotel's heat bill, but works. A better option someone else suggested is a 110V stick-on pad heater. Again, find that old thread, there are lots of answers.

Type 1 de-ice fluid hasn't affected the paint, I've gotten very little on the plexiglass, but it is supposed to be safe there too. It's as messy on a small airplane as on a big airplane, though soap and water wash gets it off, as does a few flights in rain. Type 1 can be stored for more than 1 year as long as it is out of sunlight, UV is bad I guess. There is an FAA approved test and all the stations I have talked to said their Type 1 always passed when stored indoors.

Enough for now,,,,,,, must have more coffee,,,,,,,,
Kirk

[Lowflybye]

What can the Maules handle as far as x-winds go comfortably? I see the numbers show 12kts. What do you experienced drivers feel comfortable with and where the borderline is? Do you guys recommend landing clean and a wheelie or when you are loaded land 3-points.

Do whatever it takes to keep it straight and dump the flaps to 0 or negative as soon as the mains are on the ground.

Taxiway Takeoff

With regards to the wind velocity...well that all depends on your skill and comfort level...of course the FAA may have a different opinion if they find out about it.

[starcom]

Thank you for your replies. The knowledge here is amazing!

The reason I ask about winter ops is I have this crazy notion taking the airplane up to some of the ski resorts. Some of the resorts here have limited services.

I do plan on installing tanis heaters. Here in MI most of the airplanes have them installed. I just need to make sure I have enough cord and invest in some wing covers.

Thanks again!

[Hogy59]

I usually don't land with flaps 48, because I tend to run out of elevator. Depends on how you have it trimmed. But I do fly final with 48 to get down and then back to 40 to land. Not much difference in the landing roll.

As to your question on cabin heat, mine doesn't do a very good job. At 20-25 degrees outside, you better have a good coat and gloves. I talked to Maule Flight this past winter, and the problem is the air duct taking air to the muffler doesn't let enough air through. They have a mod to add another duct for more airflow over the muffler. Haven't tried it yet, though.

[maules.com]

The cabin heat situation can be overcome with careful tuning of the ducting, heat valves and baffling.
The cabin is a low pressure area thus will suck cold outside air in at any gap, crack, crevice or hole, so it is very important to eliminate ALL outside air ingress. Wing roots, underfloor from tailcone and landing gear areas, overhead of headliner from tailcone, etc.
Best glide will get you over 8 to 1 however big tyres, 3 blades, and other drag factors can affect this.
You can glide to a power off landing with whatever flaps you want from The more flaps, the steeper glide. Have enough speed to be developing just enough lift for the flare, then as wheels touch, get rid of flaps.
Maules crosswind placard is merely for FAA certification and is similar to a C172. The placard does not issue a limitation but states the component required to be demonstrated for the FAA.
Running out of elevator authority is a result of utilizing too much elevator trim.
If one approaches with appropriate speed for 48 flap, be sure to put the nose down to gain appropriate speed if changing to 40 flap.

[Lowflybye]

Maules crosswind placard is merely for FAA certification and is similar to a C172. The placard does not issue a limitation but states the component required to be demonstrated for the FAA.

Tell that to the FAA...I know of a pilot who made that exact point to the local inspector (and his superior) after being questioned about an uneventful landing in "excessive crosswinds". He was quickly reprimanded for having a dangerous pilot attitude because "he must think that he is more skilled than the test pilot who did the certification demonstration". It did not matter that it was an uneventful landing in a 17 - 21 kts direct x-wind..."the airplane has never been officially demonstrated nor certified for greater than 12kts". I guess this uneventful landing was not an official demonstration.

The plane will do it all day long if the pilot is up to the task...just don't let the FAA read about it in your blog.

[aero101]

My MX7-180A does just fine on cabin heat, but as Jeremy mentioned, you need to have leak free cabin, and make sure all the scatt hose for heating system is in good shape, with minimal bends. The aux heat sys available does very little to help and not worth the effort and cost to install as far as I'm concerned. I fly with temps all the way down the -10F to -15F routinely, of course you need jackets, etc,etc in that wx, but cabin is comfortable. If loaded with people, windshield will tend to frost up some until you get flying and the airspeed gets the hot air flowing. At 20F and above I usually have to shut the valves off about half way or it'll run you out of cabin while in flight. I also preheat the cabin with the engine as it's easier on gyro instruments and allows for easier load on engine heating while flying.

I use 48D flaps for short field landings only where it's critical to touch down at beginning of landing area. Not a lot of difference in touchdown speed, but with the added drag, all you need do is pull back the power and sink like a rock, immediately, onto the landing area...

[UP-M5]

my maule and i used to fly around michigan before we migrated to alaska. you will likely be just fine with the 180hp. i used to fly out of thompsonville (7Y2) on skis, which is right across the road from crystal mountain ski resort. you will need a full set of covers because hangars are not available in most places. and as far as preheat- make sure you have am electric pad heater (reif, safe-heat, etc) and also make sure you can heat without electricity if need be. just do a search here on preheat.
the cabin heat is fine down to 20 below. and i have flown in 30 below, you just need to dress for it.
you can even fit several pairs of skis and several passengers without strapping skis to the struts. its a great platform.

[starcom]

Thank you!

You guys are awesome! I can just picture all you guys around a fire:) That would be one for the books:)

You guys really have helped clear up a lot of things for me.

Mr. UP-M5 thanks! I've been up to Nub's and Boyne who knows how many times this season. Got 51-days of running Black Diamonds this season:) I'm trying to get the visual of the skis strapped to the struts and the look on the wife's face. I think therapy would be in-order. Worse yet, my Head skis launching from 7000'.

Talked with the guy about the offer I put in this weekend. They have accepted it so I should be heading down to FL to investigate, fly and buy:) Should be an adventure!

Had to go chase a DC-9 today in Alabama. Probably will be heading down to Mexico and eventually back to Detroit. Should be back in a few days and then down to Florida and hopefully show up home with a Maule:)

The wife thinks I'm nuts, but she knows it will happen no matter what she says! Should be exciting!

Thanks for not taking her side!

[andy]

I've owned a MX-7-180 for 12 years and I'm happy with it, although I'd rather have a M-7-235 with the IO-540 engine. My MX-7-180 has the shorter (30'10") wing. The combination of 180hp and shorter wing prevents me from putting (heavy) amphibs on the airplane, although straight floats or skis would work fine. With the 180hp engine and heavily loaded at high density altitudes it will take a while to get airborn and climb will be anemic. On the other hand, you can put 4 adults and full main fuel in the 180 and not exceed max gross weight (2500). I usually cruise at 9 gph which gives me around 100 - 110 mph. It's not very speedy with bigger tires and AK Bushwheels HD gear legs, but it will handle short strips without a problem on landing. Good options to add are a Cleveland dual-puck wheel and brake conversion kit, flexible stainless steel brake lines and Alaskan Bushwheels Heavy Duty gear legs. I like my constant speed prop but a fixed pitch prop should give you good performance.

In winter I carry a Northern Companion engine preheater and my Kennon insulated cowl, prop and spinner blankets in case I land somewhere too far from electricity. That can happen even at a larger airport when they park you in the back 40. You definitely need preheat to start the engine in colder weather. The insulated blankets will keep the engine and oil warm for hours even in very cold weather. If possible, in cold weather I park so that the sun warms up the cabin. Heating up the battery makes starting much easier and it's easier on your gyros. You can get a small 1000 watt electric heater to warm the cabin with a long extension cord if you're close to electricity. Long extension cords are heavy and take up a fair amount of room in the baggage compartment, so you might find the Northern Companion a better solution. Some people use small portable generators (Honda or Yamaha) to power their preheaters. I've never tried running one on AVGAS and I wouldn't want to carry one in the baggage area with fuel in its tank. Too much of a fire hazard and you might smell the fumes as the tank vented while climbing.

Unless there's a lot of wind or I'm heavily loaded, I usually land with 48D flaps at 60mph on final. That turns out to be a good combination of lift and slow enough airspeed to prevent floating above the runway along with a moderately steep descent over trees or other obstacles. You can also slip with full flaps to descend more quickly. Heavier loading will make you descend faster, so more final approach airspeed will be needed. I don't use elevator trim on landing to avoid running out of elevator near the runway.

Others have mentioned that in cold weather you need to seal off any cabin air leaks to stay warm. The wing roots and door weatherstripping are potential sources of air leaks. If you deal with the air leaks, the normal heater should be adequate to keep the cabin warm. I have the back seat auxiliary heat system. It doesn't contribute a lot to the overall cabin temperature but it helps to warm up the feet of back seat passengers. Oil temperature can run low (150 or less) in cold weather so many people partially block the oil cooler air intake with aluminum foil duct tape. Changing to a thinner oil in winter can improve things somewhat. I use Aeroshell 80+ in winter and 100+ in warmer temperatures. Lots of people use 15W-50 all year.

The MX fuselage has a lower ceiling in the back seat than the M series. I've had tall passengers whose heads hit the ceiling in the back seat. I've also had tall passengers with long legs who don't have a problem. It depends on the person's height from the seat to the top of the head.

Maules will handle more than the demonstrated 14 mph of crosswind but a gusty crosswind is harder to deal with than a steady one. The tail is relatively heavy, the coupling is relatively short, the cross-section of the empennage is pretty large. You want to get some training in gusty crosswind landings with an experienced Maule instructor before launching on your own. Don't be afraid to use a firm dab on one brake if the tail starts to misbehave on landing, but mostly just elimate any sideways drift.

There's a lot to appreciate with a Maule, but you'll really appreciate it when you buy parts. The price difference between Cessna parts and Maule parts is enormous. Another Maule feature that's easy to appreciate is the spacious baggage area access. You can easily remove the rear sling seat and put a huge amount of cargo into the baggage area when you fly with two people in front.

Hope you get a Maule and have a great time with it.