Experimental maule

lilcarp03 · Post by **lilcarp03** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Hello my name is Cole Hawkins, I am new to the forum and have a few questions for you experts. I am thinking of putting together a experimental maule although I can't figure out which way to jump. All the flying that I do s in a cub and is off airport configuration. I would like to have the ability to hall more gear/people out of the big gravel bars/mountian sides, then get her light and go in to the real nasty stuff. I am sure everyone has seen what Greg Millers bushwacker can do, that is some what of what I am looking for. I have been thinking of starting out with an M4 and completly gutting all of the excess weight out of it, bolting on the larger M7 wing, using a high compression 0360 lycoming engine with a long flat pitched prop, and extending the gear, adding 35 inch tires. So all in all lots of horsepower, light weight, and a lot of lift. Do you guys see were I am going with this. Would an M5 be a better way to go, is the angle of incedecne the same on all maules. Are the wings universal between all models.

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:26 am

I think the wing attach angles, angle of incidence etc. is the same for all Maules, but I am not certain. If anything you want to increase the wings angle of incidence
I would love to see an experimental with slats myself and or Fowler type flaps. If your going experimental, your building 51% of it yourself of course. Make the flaps from aileron ribs so the flaps are as big as the ailerons if your staying with normal flaps, currently stock flaps are smaller than the ailerons for some reason.
I don't know, but would think the M4's fuselage is slightly lighter than any other. Toss the factory doors, they are made from steel and real heavy, thin Lexan will save a lot of weight, and make the doors one piece "seaplane" doors. One light weight multi function instrument will save some weight as opposed to separate tachs etc., not much maybe, but it adds up.
A lot of weight in an electrical system if you can do without. Maybe a sling seat too?
Engine cowling on mine is real heavy, maybe make a thin one from carbon? Titanium firewall? Titanium exhaust? Composite prop?
What's the lightest way to do fabric?

Oh, and I'm not expert, just opinionated

What's the weight difference between 31's and 35's?

Maybe build the tail feathers from aluminum tubing?

benflyn · Post by **benflyn** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:10 am

Greg Miller and Wayne Mackey helped Geoff put this maule together.

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopi ... ht=franken

lilcarp03 · Post by **lilcarp03** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:02 am

Thanks for the info guys, I still need to do a lot of research to find out the small stuff. I do see that the turbine maule has the longest wing of all but it is only around 6 inches longer. What I dont know is if the 32 foot 11 inch wing has the same 126 inches of flap. I seems to be big flaps are a must, as long as you have the horsepower to pull it out. One other thing I am curious about is if the m4 has enough tail surface, when you get low and slow with alot of power in, and all of the flap on will there be too much washout on the tail. Any of you guys with m4s have problens with elevator/rudder athuority when you are dragging it up with full flaps.

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:23 am

I'd be surprised if the 4 doesn't have as much if not more rudder area then a 5. Besides that's the beauty of Experimental isn't it? Need more rudder? Build a bigger one.
My old 6 with it's droop tips has smaller ailerons and rubber chord than the newer aircraft, without VG's if your dragging it in, it's very possible for it to run out of aileron authority in a cross wind, VG's seemed to cure that, but it's aileron authority it ran out of, not rudder.
I think weight is at least as important as wing length, I don't know at what length, but at some point there is a point of diminishing returns. I bet a light weight Maule with 30" wings, bigger flaps and slats would outperform any longer winged Maule, because of the weight difference.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:27 am

The M4 does just fine with original wing as far as elev / rudder with this wing, but going to the early long wing will have some effect back there. I would think that elev would be sufficient as would rudder as the early rounded tail probably has slightly more area then the M7... Elev area probably close to the same area as M7. Would be an interesting fun project and I think the high compression hot rod 360 engine would be the way to go. Greg Miller would certainly be a good and valueble source of information...

lilcarp03 · Post by **lilcarp03** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:43 am

I really appreciate the info from you guys, have you guys ever known anyone whom has covered the wings in fabric versus sheet metal. Can it be done, or would you lose too much wing strength. I don't know what thickness sheet metal maule uses on there wings. I would definetly lose all the electrical system, and cut down the gauges to a minimum. Have any of you guys hand proped a maule with seaplane doors, are you able to reach the controls from in front of the lift struts. Running around behind might get a little dicy at times. Trying to reach that throttle when she's leavin.

chetharris · Post by **chetharris** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:46 am

The flap mechanism on the longer wings is different from the original m-4 and m-5 mechanism. A little welding for torque tube flaps and you have a longer slower flying wing.

At least that is the way I have always imagined it. That is to say my advice is hearsay.

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:21 pm

If you were to fabric cover the wings, you would have to I assume install bracing wires, which would negate some of the weight savings. I think the wings are covered in .020 metal? I don't think it's .016.
I don't think you could reach any controls from in front of the struts, especially with extended gear and big tires. Hand propping if chocked isn't dangerous in my opinion, but instead of trying to reach the throttle from inside, if I were worried, I would install another on the outside. Having two throttles would mean you couldn't use the stock type of locking throttle, but that's no big deal either. I don't think you would need to reach the throttle anyway, but that's of course up to you.
You could of course attach a remote kill switch to a lanyard, if she started to get away from you, the lanyard is pulled and the kill switch activated. I think some hotrod boats do this if the driver falls out? Many ways to skin a cat.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:35 pm

Yes Chet, the longer wings just require a couple of brackets in upper frame area to support torque tube, a couple pulley clusters to facilitate control cables, tabs to support new flap handle assy, pretty straight forward... Don't know that I'd illiminate the total elect sys as hand proping on floats is a real pain. Think I'd go minimum sys with lightweight components which would probably cost maybe 25-35 lbs but would be worth it? As for fabric on wings, could probably be done, but would verify that with Shirley Maule... Wing skins are pretty thin, but the wings are heavy compared to supercub...

chetharris · Post by **chetharris** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:09 pm

Jim,

Just the roughest estimate: how long would it take, what would it cost for the brackets, pulley clusters, and tabs for the flap handle?

I think I am still on topic.

Chet

MauleWacko · Post by **MauleWacko** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:16 pm

lilcarp03 · Post by **lilcarp03** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:16 pm

I see you guys say that the m7 has torch tube flaps instead of cables is it the same for the ailerons?

xwildcat · Post by **xwildcat** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:41 am

I've researched it before and now I can't find it on my new computer, but I know the M4 has slightly more surface area on its rudder than the square tails. About the same elevator size. Square tails have more stabilizer than M4s.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:43 am

Most if not all the conversion to the torque tube system can be fabricated easily, cost will be based upon whether you can weld it yourself or have to hire a welder... Maule has prints available for the conversion which run about $350, though it's not applicable to an M4 modification. The mod that does the M5 to an M6 would cover it print-wise. The ailerons operate the same,,, The rest of the cost would be based upon what you have to pay for a complete set of the wings with flight controls, torque tube, etc, etc... Best bet would be if you could find a wrecked M7 or M7A somewhere without too much wing damage, but that would give you everything you'd need, plus you could reverse engineer it and wouldn't need the prints from Maule.. We just participated in doing an M5 conversion, and it sure makes a huge difference in performance.

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