Maule Purchase

[TomS]

Greetings All.

This is my first post as I am a new member. Thanks for hosting such a great forum. It has helped me in a number of ways. I am a relatively new pilot (300+ TT) with about 25 hrs in tailwheel and will be purchasing a maule in the near future.

I am shopping for a M5 180 because of their price to performance, useful load (900-1000) and economy (8-12gph). I've looked at the M5 235's and they are beautiful birds. In fact, I had the chance not too long ago to fly a M7-235. A full stall resulted in a 500 fpm decent. I was impressed and sold on a maule.

Here is where I'd like some feedback. There are a few M5 235's on the market and the price is still within my budget but I am partial to the 180C due to engine rebuild costs and operating costs. Is it worth the jump to the 235 at the cost of 100lbs of useful load and added operating expenses?

Put another way... what is the added value in the 235 over the 180C? If you have flown both, I am particularly interested in your experiences in each.

Thanks,

Tom

[rjb]

If you are interested in buying a Maule, make contact with Jeremy, since you're on the west coast.

The Maule is a wonderful airplane; insurance for it is expensive. Make sure that is included in your cost calculations. I've been very pleased with Gustafson Insurance support.

In my case, the difference in operating expenses between a 180 and a 235 are overwhelmed by hanger costs, insurance costs, Jeppesen database update costs, etc... Maybe if I could get up to more than 200 hours per year, it would be a significant factor

My 180C came from the factory with 950 lbs useful load: the addon IFR and autopilot equipment had quickly ate up payload. I have to watch what I try to carry but balance so far has never been an issue. Since I'm overweight and some of my friends are too, balance would be more of an issue in the 235.

I enjoy flying below 120 mph 1500 agl with the windows open. More speed is not important to me. If it were, I'd put on smaller tires.

If improving chances of reaching your destination is important, or if improving chances of flying in the mountains is important, get the 235. You still have to be ready to abort but additional horsepower is wonderful. Climbing over Mono Lake in the summertime to get altitude to come back over Tioga Pass makes me wish for a 235.

Good luck,
Dick

[Skystrider]

Hey TomS, Welcome to the forum!

I have a 1980 M5 180C. A great airplane. I have flown in a number of 235's. A 180 gets off the ground in nothing flat. A 235 gets off faster! If you are flying in the mountains a 235 will do a much better job. If you are flying on the East coast like me, a 180 is just fine.

I flight plan for 8 GPH. A 235 is 11-12 GPH. (your mileage may vary).

Based on what I have learned a 235 is about 15 to 20 MPH faster. A 180 cruises at 120 - 125 MPH.

A 235 is a six cylinder and is considerably smoother than my 180 four cylinder. Not that the 180 is not reasonably smooth when you take care of them.

There are a lot less 180's in the market than 235's simply because Maule makes a lot more 235's!

Hope that is useful and maybe a little accurate.

Have fun shopping!

[TomS]

Thanks RJB. Greatly appreciated. I'm going to give Jeremy a call today. I believe that I actually spoke with him a few years ago when I began to fly. (the maule caught my eye early)

Insurance for the 180 and me requires 50hrs in tailwheel and have a good quote for insurance.

I don't plan to do a lot of mountain flying but I would like to take a course to improve my awareness and skill for the times I venture far from Long Beach. I do have the occasional Cajon pass to get through but that somehow does not count. . I can only hope my idea of heading north with my family for a camping trip or two actually happens. A topic for another thread would be places to camp with your maule.

Where are you based where the hanger expenses are significant. I know that LGB is about 650 for a T hanger.

Thanks

T

If you are interested in buying a Maule, make contact with Jeremy, since you're on the west coast.

The Maule is a wonderful airplane; insurance for it is expensive. Make sure that is included in your cost calculations. I've been very pleased with Gustafson Insurance support.

In my case, the difference in operating expenses between a 180 and a 235 are overwhelmed by hanger costs, insurance costs, Jeppesen database update costs, etc... Maybe if I could get up to more than 200 hours per year, it would be a significant factor

My 180C came from the factory with 950 lbs useful load: the addon IFR and autopilot equipment had quickly ate up payload. I have to watch what I try to carry but balance so far has never been an issue. Since I'm overweight and some of my friends are too, balance would be more of an issue in the 235.

I enjoy flying below 120 mph 1500 agl with the windows open. More speed is not important to me. If it were, I'd put on smaller tires.

If improving chances of reaching your destination is important, or if improving chances of flying in the mountains is important, get the 235. You still have to be ready to abort but additional horsepower is wonderful. Climbing over Mono Lake in the summertime to get altitude to come back over Tioga Pass makes me wish for a 235.

Good luck,
Dick

[TomS]

Hi Skystrider,

Thanks for the specifics. It helps and confirms some of what I have read. I dont plan to fly a lot in the mountains. I do hope to take a mountain course once I am settled with the plane. 8MPG is better than I originally planned for so that is a bonus. I hope the rest of my experience is like that... it just keeps getting better...

Regarding the 6 v 4 cylinder. Is the 6 louder or should I just buy a good set of ANRs?

Finally, are there any particulars I should look out for in the purchase of a 180?

Cheers,
Tom

Hey TomS, Welcome to the forum!

I have a 1980 M5 180C. A great airplane. I have flown in a number of 235's. A 180 gets off the ground in nothing flat. A 235 gets off faster! If you are flying in the mountains a 235 will do a much better job. If you are flying on the East coast like me, a 180 is just fine.

I flight plan for 8 GPH. A 235 is 11-12 GPH. (your mileage may vary).

Based on what I have learned a 235 is about 15 to 20 MPH faster. A 180 cruises at 120 - 125 MPH.

A 235 is a six cylinder and is considerably smoother than my 180 four cylinder. Not that the 180 is not reasonably smooth when you take care of them.

There are a lot less 180's in the market than 235's simply because Maule makes a lot more 235's!

Hope that is useful and maybe a little accurate.

Have fun shopping!

[Hogy59]

Hi Tom,

I've got a MX-7 180B. I've flown in several 235s and a couple of 210s. The one thing I immediately noticed is how much smoother the 6 runs than the 4. My O-360 is turning 2700 rpm at full throttle, and I believe (but not sure) the 6s run about 2300 or so. I get 7-8 gph around the pattern, but if I'm cruising at 24 squared or so, I'm burning about 10gph, at about 125 mph. I love the plane. I live outside Nashville, so don't really need the big engine, and I made sure I could run Mogas,(about a $1100 mod a couple of years ago).

[Hottshot]

I have had pretty much the same as Skystryder I love mine but working out of high mtn strips with a full load of family I am going to try out a 235 for a while and sell my 180 hp MX7....

[N9657]

I have had a M5 180 for four years now and love the plane. My prop is a constant speed and I think it makes a big difference in performance. I cruise at 24 mp and 25 rpm and indicate 128 mph. It is also quieter with the constant speed prop. From what I have read on this forum the 235 is a bit nose heavy on approach. If I could get an injected 0360 rather than a carborated engine I think it would be ideal with the constant speed prop.

[TomS]

Thanks. Was there a period where you were not sure about the purchase? Was there a learning curve to over come? I agree the constant speed prop makes the plane more valuable when it comes to getting the most from that fan in front and keeping the engine where you want in terms of RPMs. Do you see any rpm range which results in better A.S.? Sounds like 24/25 works for you.

I too have heard that the 235 is a little nose heavy. My one landing in a m7-235 was with some power in. I approached it like the 182 I have flown except that I did not need to worry about elevator authority on short final with the 235.

I have had a M5 180 for four years now and love the plane. My prop is a constant speed and I think it makes a big difference in performance. I cruise at 24 mp and 25 rpm and indicate 128 mph. It is also quieter with the constant speed prop. From what I have read on this forum the 235 is a bit nose heavy on approach. If I could get an injected 0360 rather than a carborated engine I think it would be ideal with the constant speed prop.

[TomS]

Thanks Hogy and Hotshot.

I have been flying C172s (fuel injected) and I have to admit it will be different seeing 2700 rpms since redline is about 2500. I'd be well into the red. Do you know if there are any additional balancing that can be done to get a little more smoothness from the O360?

How is the mogas working out? I've heard mixed reviews depending on engine and added cooling from the lead. I honestly dont know enough about the subject. What would be needed for the STC? Different fuel filter, spark plug gaps?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

I've got a MX-7 180B. I've flown in several 235s and a couple of 210s. The one thing I immediately noticed is how much smoother the 6 runs than the 4. My O-360 is turning 2700 rpm at full throttle, and I believe (but not sure) the 6s run about 2300 or so. I get 7-8 gph around the pattern, but if I'm cruising at 24 squared or so, I'm burning about 10gph, at about 125 mph. I love the plane. I live outside Nashville, so don't really need the big engine, and I made sure I could run Mogas,(about a $1100 mod a couple of years ago).

[diebroke]

From what I have read on this forum the 235 is a bit nose heavy on approach.

Just throw a couple of golden retrievers in the back for ballast.

I fly an fuel injected M5 235. My home base is at 5640 msl and routinely fly into 7000+ msl. This bird packs a load and climbs like a home sick angel.

As far as ANR headsets-I would definitely recommend this purchase. A maule or should I say mine is quite noisy. I even put Mutt Muffs on the boys (the ballast).

Performance-When cruising I am usually between 7500 and 9500 and at 65% will see 150mph TAS burning 12-13 GPH-running ROP.

RPM red line on my AC is 2400.

[N9657]

Thanks. Was there a period where you were not sure about the purchase? Was there a learning curve to over come? I agree the constant speed prop makes the plane more valuable when it comes to getting the most from that fan in front and keeping the engine where you want in terms of RPMs. Do you see any rpm range which results in better A.S.? Sounds like 24/25 works for you. /quote] I prettymuch was hooked on the plane when I took my tailwheel training with Ray Maule. We flew a 160 so the performance was less than the 180 but Ray had us getting the most out of it. There is a learning curve as the M5 has a shorter wing and will shed altitude quickly. Also you will need to find the comfortable range for flap settings for different field situations. Usually I use one notch, but you should become proficient with every setting. 24/25 is my usual setting because above 6-7 thousand feet you are not getting much more than 24 mp anyway. Besides, that setting is pretty easy on fuel burn.

[a64pilot]

The resale on a 235 is better and I'll bet that if we fly side by side of each other , the difference in fuel burn may only be 1 GPH or so, and you can go much faster in the 235 than you can in the 180 if you want to.
If you will be flying an empty airplane all of the time, then the 180 will be fine, but loaded heavy going camping or just travelling, the extra 55HP comes in real handy.
I've seen many, many engines running on Mogas and if anything I would say Mogas is kinder on engines than 100LL is. To bad I can't use it, I have an injected 235 and I'm stuck with 100LL.
The 235 is only nose heavy when empty and a 180 is out of CG (aft) when loaded, which is worse?

[andy]

I've owned a MX-7-180 for 11 years but I've never flown a 235. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy a M-7-235 with fuel injection and a constant speed prop. Here's why.

I can't put amphibious floats on my MX-7-180 since the wing is too small and the engine isn't powerful enough. I wasn't a seaplane pilot when I bought the 180 so I didn't think about putting floats on.

The 235 will shorten your takeoff significantly, especially at max gross weight.

The O-540 6-cylinder engine seems much smoother than the O-360 4-cylinder engine according to what I've read on the forum. That's important if you are trying to do aerial photography or video work. I've done both in my 180 and had vibration problems with the videos.

Fuel economy and useful load are better on the 180 and cost is lower but not enough to override the other 235 advantages.

[gear]

I fly a MXT-7-180 on wheels and bought an M5-235 on floats this spring so the comparison isn't quite the same but here is my 2 cents.

The 180 on wheels is a great bird, good on fuel, etc. I do not notice much difference in vibration between that and my 235. The 235 is noticable in the power department. When I bought it, it was on wheels and we took it for a test flight. The guy that owned it climbed out after takeoff so steep that I was uncomfortable - it just hangs off the prop with no stall.

If you are ever flying floats, you'll want the 235 unless you never plan on taking passengers. If loading the plane, the 235 will lift off the water with whatever you can fit in the plane. I don't find the nose very heavy - I guess if I ever have an engine failure , that's where I'll notice the weight.

garth

ps - if you speak with Jeremy, he'll tell you that the 0-540 (235) is one of the best engines in those planes. Most go to 2000 hours without much work. I'm not sure if that's because of the fact that 100% power is 2400 rpm or not. Mine has 1450 hours or so and nothing major so far.