Turbocharging the I0-540 or oversized pistons

MauleMx · Post by **MauleMx** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:22 am

Anybody have any insight on either turbocharging the IO-540 (MT235) or an STC for oversized pistons? I ran across an approval for someone in Alaska who has 0.010 over in their engine. Anyone have an email for him or an idea of what the HP increase might be?
Greatly appreciated!

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:51 pm

I kinda want to think you can oversize .010 on overhaul. There won't be any difference in power though.
Pretty sure you can turbo normalize your engine if you can afford it. No power increase, just it holds it's sea level power until critical altitude which if you fly in the flight levels is a real big boost!
Don't know which airplane you have, if it is eligible for a 260 conversion or not. Again if you can afford it.
Usually it is far cheaper to sell whatever you have and buy whatever you want as opposed to conversions.

UP-M5 · Post by **UP-M5** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:04 pm

the STC to grind .010" oversize belongs to BJ custom engines. it does not increase your horsepower. simply lets you put worn out jugs back into use. if you are in the horsepower market, i know of a local fellow who had his M7-235 turned into an M7-260 at overhaul time. this was done by a one time field approval based on the TCDS.
another option is ported cylinders. they can boost hp legally.
high compression pistons are another way to add hp- but not legal without field approval. haven't seen those approved by any feds yet.
i haven't seen any aftermarket turbo systems for maules. but i think someone should. we have a turbo-normalized 185. the company that built its system was called turbo-tech, now owned by metal innovations. they have a website. you might call them and ask for a maule stc. keep in mind that system is around $30K.

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:10 pm

What part of Mexico are you in? What is it you are looking for?
High Altitude performance or just more HP?

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:38 am

The cost would be prohibitive to Turbo the O-540 as there is no certified TSIO 540, that would just not be an option... You could go to some other engine certified with turbo, but I'm sure it would require a one-time STC which you'd probably find the cost to be rediculous on as well. Cheapest way out would probably be convert to IO-540 at 260HP, which you could do on a field approval. You could also have someone flow the heads and breath on various engine parts to increase that power somewhat above the 260 level... If operating high altitude, and that's not sufficient power, would agree with previous comment, would be most cost effective to buy an existing turbo normalized aircraft to meet your purpose.

MauleMx · Post by **MauleMx** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:08 pm

Thanks so much to all for the good advice... actually very much along the lines I´ve already been hearing. We are needing the power for the high density altitudes and the short runway at our clinic here in the Sierra Tarahumara mountains of Mexico. It´s sounding like the best option is to sell the MT235

and look for something (turbo or turbonormalized) that we can afford.
Again thanks!

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:54 pm

You need a turbo charged Maule. M5-210TC.
I have flown around, on top and between your highest mountains in Mexico. The Turbo Charged Maule will handle any of your mountain runways at full gross.
Lets say, I know of someone that has taken off over 10,000 ft density altitude with 275lbs over gross in a very short distance.
You want a TURBO, more horsepower will not do the job.
You have weather that builds very quickly (an understatement) and you will need an aircraft that can out climb the clouds, the maule can do this with the high lift wing. I have only had mine to 23,000 and could have gone much higher.
Another idea!! I think a turbo charged 235 exist hear in the U.S. with a Field Approval. The Mexican Government MAY let you usr this as ACCEPTABLE DATA to turbo yours.
If you are interestd in a M5-210tc be looking at 70,000 to 100,000 If anyone will sell.

MauleMx · Post by **MauleMx** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:48 pm

Thanks for the followup thots. You're right about the need for a turbo. I know of one turbo'd M5... remained experimental for a while and then sold (apparently with some real issues about it's airworthyness certificate). I believe that it ultimately was returned to it's original configuration. No new leads either.
About the 210TC... other than yours, I only found 4 in the USA, according to the FAA database. Not a high probability of one for sale.

Thanks again, I'd like to stay in touch.
ken

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:21 pm

I think there is someone that could build a M-5210TC unless I'm mistaken. It would be the only way that you could get a "new" one.

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:01 pm

A64,
You have got a good idea...
The factory has all the jigs and WHO would be better?
I bet they could bid it.

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:05 pm

I almost forgot. The factory could only build nine without some heavy duty paper work of some kind.
It may have to due with the engine???????????????????????
Anyway, somehow 10 got built....mine may not exsit???????

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:43 pm

I have no idea about the factory or there being a limited number that they could build. I was under the impression that as long as it was done IAW the TCDS you could "convert" an M-5 under a field approval. Probably is the operative word, or maybe.
I believe Lycoming has "orphaned" the engine. I'm not sure of that, but I don't think it is supported anymore.
Not that I could afford a new airplane, but I would like about 200 hp, if I could carry that power up to about FL 180

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:29 pm

The engine can be purchased new for around 75,000.00.
The engine puts out 210hp at 42 inches. All whom I have talked to get 48 to 55 inches which comes to about 240 to 260 ponnies.
She will not hold 42inches to 18,000. I have never fully firewalled at that altitude so I,m not sure what she will make. I have had the throttle wide open, but I did not have the prop in all of the way.
This makes a HUGE difference in mp pressure as the boost come up quik with rpm.
One reason that I have not tried maxing her out at altitude is the turbo is working VERY hard up there, MUCH harder than down low and the heat it creates is NON-intercooled. If she was intercooled VEROOM,VEROOM, VEROOM.
At the very least she will climb at 750fpm at 18000.
You may be correct on the conversation. However, I'm pretty sure Maule cannot build anymore of them without a huge headache

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:23 pm

Last years AOPA win a plane, the 114 Aero Commander was turbo normalized and carried sea level power into the flight levels, I think. I know turbo normalizing Mooney's is pretty common. Both are I/O 360's. The I/O 360 in a Mooney is 200 HP, I think.
Any way, I would want one of those engines in a long winged Maule. I know, want in one hand and **** in the other and see which fills up first, right?
At 55" aren't you overboosting the snot out of it? It does have a wastegate doesn't it? You haven't "adjusted" it have you

?

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:02 pm

I said "all whom I have talked to"
If you recall in a prior post the cylinders for the TO360 are about 1000.00 more than any other lycoming cylinder. This is because they are investment cast and they will handle much more than a stock cylinder. Also, I have talked to the other owners of 210TC's and not one of them have ever had cylinder problems.
The waste gate is controlled with the throttle. More throttle, more boost.
We do have a pop off valve which normally pop's at 48 inches.
I HAVE NEVER TOUCHED MINE. JUST push the throttle forward till she reaches 42" and all is in the green. It's a NO NO to go past 42"
Did your DAD ever say "Don't be stompin on the four barrel" DID YOU LISTEN?..........LOL.............I did when he was in the car.

Turbocharging the I0-540 or oversized pistons

Turbocharging the I0-540 or oversized pistons

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