? Qs on Brakes and Tires

[xwildcat]

This one may be for Wup...

In taking an M4-220C (that I'm considering buying) to better stance and stopping, I wonder how best to proceed? The plane has drum brakes, which I wasn't aware they ever made. Of course, these need to be changed to discs. So...

1. Cleveland conversion kit, right?
2. Double pucks, right?

Now to the tires. I will use this plane off airport a lot. However, I'll land on pavement at least half the time too. It has 8.00s on it now and I want at least 8.50s and maybe GY 26s or ABW 26s or 29s on it. Aside from cost (I know about that) and since everything is a compromise...

3. Would the 8.50's work on beach sand and gravel as well as anything?
4. Where is the line 'drawn' where blimps or BWs are needed? ... (i.e. tundra, tufted grass, big rocks etc.)

Thanks for the insight. I really don't want to do this twice!

[Hottshot]

This one may be for Wup...

In taking an M4-220C (that I'm considering buying) to better stance and stopping, I wonder how best to proceed? The plane has drum brakes, which I wasn't aware they ever made. Of course, these need to be changed to discs. So...

1. Cleveland conversion kit, right?
2. Double pucks, right?

Now to the tires. I will use this plane off airport a lot. However, I'll land on pavement at least half the time too. It has 8.00s on it now and I want at least 8.50s and maybe GY 26s or ABW 26s or 29s on it. Aside from cost (I know about that) and since everything is a compromise...

3. Would the 8.50's work on beach sand and gravel as well as anything?
4. Where is the line 'drawn' where blimps or BWs are needed? ... (i.e. tundra, tufted grass, big rocks etc.)

Thanks for the insight. I really don't want to do this twice!

HD Double Puck yes.... 199-62 Kit # There are a few options that you can look at, and for the most part many people would do just fine with 8.5's but you realy have to look at what you are doing/ wanting to do and ask yourself if it is worth tearing up your airplane with out the proper equiptment? What is the First and the last things to touch the ground (hopefully) on your airplane? The tires are your first defence in any off field LZ, if you need some more floatation but aren't going to do realy ruff stuff that a pair of 29/11-10's or 8.50/10's might be the right choice for you but if you wanna get ruff than don't hesitate go for the bushwheel.

[xwildcat]

Yep... I know. The answer is "it depends". Well I'm afraid I will be getting in and out of the rough stuff. So that sounds like 8.50s won't quite cut it.

Thanks for the Cleveland part number. I want to confirm... this 199-62 is for Cessnas but will work on the M4 Maule, right?

[Hottshot]

That is correct, it is On Maules drawings (4035F) 30-52N and 40-75D wheel, it don't call out the Kit # but that is what is in the kit.

[xwildcat]

So... I'm trying to zero in on this, bear with me.

When I said I would put at least 8.50s on it, I meant 8.50x6s. In my ignorance I didn't realize there was 8.50x10s or AirHawk 29x10s.

It seems to me that the AirHawk 29x10s fill the gap somewhat between the 8.50x6s and the 26" ABWs. All the while giving good to excellent wear on pavement strips. If this is true, they sound perfect for me.

I plan on being in a lot of fairly rough stuff but not hardcore-Greg-Miller-type rough stuff. I will do a lot pavement landings too.

So if I buy the following ABW kit...
ABI-1010 -- $1650.00/pair (STC# SA01765SE)
... then I would only need the brake portion of the 199-62 kit. Right?

If so, that seems like a good solution for me at a relatively good price. $1650 + $500 (for 30-52N) = $2150. Unless I'm missing something here, that would save about $1600 compared to ABW 26s ($2700) + Cleveland kit 199-62 ($1050).

If I'm wrong here, please let me know. I was wrong once, but only because I thought I was mistaken.

[xwildcat]

Anyone?... anyone?...

[RobBurson]

x, I think you have to add in $800.00 for the tires. I think wheels and tires are like $2400.00. Wup will set us straight we he logs on. Cheers...Rob

[UP-M5]

the $1650 is only for a set of 10" wheels. you will then need the tires to put on them. either 8.50x10's or 29x11x10's.

and last time i priced cleveland brakes- the double puck calipers were ~$480 a piece, or $1100 for the whole kit with 2 calipers, wheels, discs, and torque plates. let us know if you have a source for cheap calipers.

[Hottshot]

Wildcat--

The boyz are correct, I got you e-mail I will give you a call this AM.

[RobBurson]

Calling Mr. Wup, Say I put the ABW 29x11x10 wheels with Airhawk tires and the double puck brake kit on.

Can I switch back to my 8:50X6 ? What is the estimated time? Do the new wheels come with rotors? Are they the same diameter as the stock M7 Cleveland’s ? Regards…Rob

[MauleWacko]

[xwildcat]

Hey Rob, I just got off the phone with Wup and I think I've zeroed in on what I'm going to do.

You were right it takes two sets of brakes to get what the conversion kit 199-62 includes, so there's no sense in ordering anything but the kit. (That way I'll have an essentially "free" set of 6" Cleveland wheels for about the same cost.)

The 10x10 wheels are built a little over to really bite the tire. ABW did this to all but eliminate the possibility of slippage. The 29x11x10 Airhawks are a few pounds heavier than the 31"BWs, but much more 'durable when taxiing on pavement, which I'll be doing quite a bit. Since I need this durability, I think I'll go with the Airhawks. Which are, as you said, $800 but that includes the tubes.

I'll give up the flexy forgiveness of the 31s but the footprint and flotation will be there and work well for me since I'm expecting to avoid landing on anything bigger than baseball sized river rocks. Just found this... http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=6505

Wup says that the MAJORITY of BWs sold are the 31s. The 26s and 29s are evidently slightly inferior to the 31s. I just think the 31s are overkill for me... and I need tires to handle a lot of pavement. So the 10x10 setup feels right.

One exciting thing I learned from Wup is they are introducing an EXTENDED Maule gear come spring. I'll definitely go that route as soon as it gets approved. It's a simple bolt on process to replace the gear and I'm excited to have the extra width and height it will give. Cost should be around $1100.

Now... once that extended gear is in place, what in the world should I do with those free 6" wheels and an extra $3400????? Hmmmm....

[xwildcat]

MauleWaco, Great insight that is obviously earned. Thank you!

The plane I just bought has drum brakes and I can't have that... Unlike a lot of pilots but like you, I do fly very precise, slow approaches. Brake linings last a long time for me. I doubt I'd need the double pucks for 800 or 850s, but I might with the 29x11x10s or BWs. I can't imagine I will put the smaller tires back on once I get the 29" or larger tundra tires.

I wonder why you sold the M4?

Thanks again.

[Hottshot]

As for the Brakes on the M4's we had the Double Pucks on and loved it. It is better to have when you need than wish you did and don't have them. But hey different strokes I guess.

As for the 10-10's they use the same disks as the HD brakes (199-62) on the Spring gear if you are board rob swing over and we can test fit a wheel and make sure that there are no hidden issues.

[a64pilot]

I don't know why, but the brake pads last almost forever on the double puck brakes. I know that you have twice the swept area because you have twice the pad, but it seems that the pads last far more than twice as long. I believe you are far less likely to bend the brake piston rod on a Maule with double puck brakes than one with single puck. Get the double pucks, you'll like them.