Tuned exhaust for 4 cylinder Maules (?) In development

Mods, approval, 337's, STC's, fun with the Feds.
a64pilot
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Post by a64pilot »

rjb wrote:When/how can I get one without having to deal with my local FSDO?
Never, all maintenance is within the FSDO realm. Are you asking about STC maybe or Field Approval?

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rjb
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Post by rjb »

I thought Powerflow was working towards getting an STC for older Maules and/or PMA on upcoming models of Maules and I was hoping that would happen this decade.

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aero101
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Post by aero101 »

Suggest contact Power Flow if you want one, he is actively working towards an STC for the Maules and I believe he'd like to have a few orders or commitments to help him recoup expenses? Of course I think he's starting with the O-360 Lycoming version first?
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bobguhr
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Post by bobguhr »

rjb Below is a copy of my correspondence with Jim from powerflow. I'm going to put the powerflow system on my Maule. I'm tired of welding exhaust system components on a regular basis and I like the idea of improved performance and possibly better fuel economy.


- Jim Shafer
Power Flow Systems, Inc.
Ph: (877) 693-7356
Fax: (877) 570-9831

>
> Thank you for your recent inquiry and in your interest in our Tuned
Exhaust System
> for your MXT-7.
>
> As you may have heard, Maule Air and Power Flow Systems just announced the
> development project that will lead to the production of an STC'd Tuned
Exhaust
> System for the four cylinder powered Maule airframes during the First
Annual
> Maule Homecoming & Fly-in this past weekend.
>
> This effort was undertaken at the urging of many Maule Customers who are
> seeking a more robust, reliable and longer lasting exhaust system for
their aircraft.
> Power Flow's Tuned Exhaust Systems have been providing these benefits to
our
> Customers since 1999 with more than 4,300 of our systems now installed and
flying
> on a variety of airframes worldwide.
>
> In addition to the reliability benefits, our Tuned Exhaust has been proven
to provide
> an additional 10 - 20 horsepower (with all of the accompanying performance
> benefits) on the airframes for which we have developed and certified the
system.
> The improved performance numbers you can realistically expect are outlined
on the
> attached product sheets.
>
> We brought our Power Flow equipped test-bed aircraft, an O-360 powered
MX-7 to
> the fly-in to demonstrate its effectiveness and to discuss the Pre-STC
discount
> program described in the attached pdf file.
>
> The Retail price for the complete system once the STC has been obtained
will be
> $4,895.00. As outlined in the Pre-STC Agreement, in exchange for an
earnest
> money deposit of $750.00, early adopters will receive a minimum discount
of
> $500.00 off of that retail price. The discount could go as high as
$800.00
> depending upon how many Maule owners commit to the program by the April
30,
> 2014 deadline.
>
> Please review the attached information at your convenience and feel free
to contact
> me if you have any questions or concerns.
>
> If you think your Maule would benefit from this upgrade and you would like
to take
> advantage of the Pre-STC Discount program, just complete and sign the
Pre-STC
> Agreement and return it to me via either fax or e-mail.
>
> Thanks again for your interest in our products, Bob. I look forward to
hearing from
> you.
>
>
> All the Best!
>
>
> Jim Shafer
> Power Flow Systems, Inc.
> 1585 Aviation Center Parkway, Suite 605
> Daytona Beach, FL 32114
> www.powerflowsystems.com
> jim@powerflowsystems.com
> Ph: (877) 693-7356
> Fax: (877) 570-9831

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rjb
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Post by rjb »

Thanks, Bob

The cost was more than I had hoped for but everything related to aviation seems to be. If I get some hopeful ideas to the following, I will be an early adopter.

What ideas do people have to switch to the powerflow system and still be able to fly a factory 180hp 4 passenger plane that meets the petition before the FAA that allows day VFR flights with at most 1 passenger in planes of no more than 180 hp with a driver license? (I know, I know, Santa Claus will come down my chimney this year...)

To be clear, I care little about violating a law's intent, but I will be paranoid about remaining legal if that petition goes through.

-Dick

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MAU MAU
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Post by MAU MAU »

RJB - at the PF presentation in Moultrie, they indicated that although the Lycoming is rated at 180 HP, once you place a rather antiquated muffler system (Maule stock) on said engine, you were basically choking it down to 160 HP or less.

My understanding is that by placing a Power Flow tuned exhaust on the Lycoming, you are just allowing it to breath easier which will result in the increase in HP to possibly the original 180 HP.

Hopefully Darren will chime in and correct me if the above is incorrect.

As previously discussed, you will most likely still have to have the Power Flow system welded at some point. My IA showed me a PF system he had just removed from a Cessna Cardinal with a long crack on the inner sleeve. As it is constructed of stainless steel, he had to send it out for welding.
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rjb
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Post by rjb »

MAU MAU

I'm not sure I find your answer sufficient to write a check - I have had some wine - but it certainly ups the odds of writing a check to Power Flow Systems tomorrow.

I don't expect no maintenance; I would like less maintenance, and a little bit more efficiency and I would be ecstatic if it is indeed quieter with a little bit more performance.

Thanks,
Dick

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MAU MAU
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Post by MAU MAU »

RJB - I say finish another bottle or two, call Brent, and place an order for a new M-9!

We might as well take full advantage of you while you have the checkbook handy.

:D

With regards to the Power Flow, I highly recommend you call them directly for the best information.
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aero101
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Post by aero101 »

Power Flow not going to certify based upon a HP increase above 180HP as I doubt very much that you're making 180HP in the Maule configuration anyway.... Generally even the HP increase type mods, the FAA take on HP will be original numbers per TCDS, which is 180HP. The only conversions I"ve seen that increase factory numbers are the various engine changes that considerably change performance, HP, Limitations, etc, etc... I'm totally with you on 180HP / 4 place light sport rule and hope we get some relief to self certify as we age, but I've been led to believe that FAA's take on that is, let's say, not on a positive note and time will tell. EAA and AOPA have both been pretty quiet on this one for awhile as well. Bottom line, if I wanted a legal exh without aggravation of field approval, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the power flow system.
Jim
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andy
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Post by andy »

I saw the Power Flow system up close at he Maule Homecoming. It looks kind of complicated to me. There are lots of pipes, bends and welds. It didn't sound any quieter than a regular exhaust system when it flew overhead. I couldn't verify increased horsepower or improved fuel efficiency, but I know they are known for it. Someone who has one of these systems on another aircraft with a O-360 engine will have to weigh in on that subject. My main concern is cracks in the welds with the Maule exhaust. The Power Flow system looks like it avoids some of the more problemmatic sharply bent Maule exhaust welds in favor of curved pipe sections with straight junctions, but I'm not a welding expert.
Andy
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Post by Mountain Doctor »

Does anyone know what a stock Maule replacement system would cost? I'm just wondering what the 'delta' is here.

So, if I understood corretly, the Powerflow is the new Maule exhaust system?
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Post by MauleWacko »

:shock:
Last edited by MauleWacko on Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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aero101
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Post by aero101 »

Last time I checked the 180HP system from Maule was about $2K with everything.... The custom built sys I installed was around $2300 complete. Tim's 6 cyl system I would guess is near $2500 somewhere, plus cost of Tim doing paperwork on approval? Same builder does Tim's sys, did mine and they do excellent work... For the 4 cylinder Lycoming, I would suspect that Powerflow would get you the most performance wise simply because it's a 4 into 1 and added scavenging ought to get you something?
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Power Flow performance video, update on # of deposits

Post by Powerflowsystems »

I am sorry it took so long, but we have finally been able to post a video and focus on the marketing side of exhaust system development. The video showing the stock muffler versus Power Flow tuned exhaust on the Maule aircraft is on you tube at: http://youtu.be/RIZiadtAntU

We also just mailed a postcard out to the US owners of 4 cylinder Maule aircraft talking about the improvements with installing a Power Flow Exhaust and the opportunity to get the exhaust certified. Our news page contains more information, our # of deposits, and the video and can be seen by going to pfsmaule.com.

As of 3/21 we are now at 5 confirmed commitments.

I am happy to answer any of your questions before we head off to Sun-n-Fun next weekend.
Darren Tilman
General Manager
Chief Test Pilot
Power Flow Systems, Inc.

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MAU MAU
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Post by MAU MAU »

Hello Darren -

I have been having my Maule mufflers rebuilt (totally new) by Dawley Aviation in Wisconsin, and what comes back is much better than what you get from Maule. I just received one today and it cost $624.00.

http://www.dawleyaviation.com

In talking to Dawley and my IA, your Power Flow exhaust's still crack and have to be repaired just like the antiquated Maule system. I even looked at one of your systems installed on a Cessna Cardinal that had a long crack that needed to be sent out and repaired and they followed your maintenance schedule to the letter.

My initial interest in your system was to avoid the aggravation and expense of continually dealing with cracks, but yours appear to crack as well.

Could you please address the cracking issue, and are you making any changes that could lessen the possibility.

I really want to see you guys succeed with a better option for us Maule drivers, but until the cracking issue is fixed I have zero incentive to purchase a Power Flow System.

Thanking you in advance................Rob
MXT-7-180A Comet

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