Odyssey Battery

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:40 am

Has your IA ever done a field approval? That's all that's required as it's already a PMA'd, TSO'd battery approved for installation in PA18 only... Pretty simple process, and a snap up here. Of course down there it might be another story as some FSDO's don't seem to do ANY field approvals anymore?

gbarrier · Post by **gbarrier** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:51 pm

I remember doing electrical analysis when I put the alternator on the champ but don't remember battery capacity being involved. Think I remember that the full electrical load less landing and taxi light could not exceed something like 80% of alternator output. Since that hasn't changed why do I need it or is there a battery capacity requirement in the analysis?

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:51 pm

I've never had to due an analysis on any batteries? Alternator yes, battery no... No need for it, as batteries will more then cover aircraft load, just the duration or cranking amps will change with different batteries. Basically all I've ever had to do is explain on 337 with drawing, text, etc where I'm going to mount it, if it's structurally sound location, what I'm using for battery box, then ref CAR 4 for certification requirements of battery by chapter and verse and how you meet those requirements. If you have a glass paneled IFR airplane, I suspect it could become a little more in depth, but not for VFR operations, or even IFR with steam gauges... I do have several 337's approved and will send out if you pm your regular email so I can attach?

gbarrier · Post by **gbarrier** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:45 pm

PMail sent and I thank you.

Like you, don't know of a reserve amperage requirements for steam gauges.

Of course you do make me start thinking. I have a standby vac source but not a standby electrical source. Wounder how long I can run the Garmin on the Odyssey.

gbarrier · Post by **gbarrier** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:01 am

Well, there I was with paperwork ready and my rep at the Feds all happy. Even did a little electrical analysis to prove that battery would support items "essential for continued flight" for 30 minutes as per FAR 23.1353(3)(h) and then.......

I discovered that the jokers who installed the nice 3 blade prop several years ago did not adjust the weight and balance accordingly.

Looks like by the time I adjust for that and do the computations for the battery my empty CG is around 9.5 and that is with putting it in the existing box. Think I'm bailing on the project for now. I'll weigh the bird one day and verify. If I find something different they I'll proceed.

Maule988ms · Post by **Maule988ms** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:30 pm

Has anyone in the lower 48 successfully got a field approval for the odyssey? Has any electrical analysis been done to prove the reserve is sufficient? My fsdo has doubt's and I would appreciate any help.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:22 pm

Good luck.. You would not believe what we had to go through to get the Kissling (sp) solenoids approved. (which now are).. it is completely nuts.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:55 pm

The Odyssey is being used on Continental 520.s Lycoming 540.s and I believe is STC'd on Cubs.
This use is in winter in Alaska.
The weight difference from a 35XC is 13.5 lbs.
It will fit in the same battery carrier though it is wise to place a load spread plate of plastic or luan on the bottom.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:11 pm

First of all, on a field approval there is no need to meet the requirements of FAR 23 in any manner as all the Maules are actually certified under CAR 4 which has considerable more leeway... Yes, there are field approvals that have been approved in lwr 48... There is no requirement for STC on PA18 as this battery is already TSO'd and PMA'd as replacement in same. Unfortunately Odyssey has not seen fit or cost too great to add other models of aircraft. As Jeremy said, these batteries are installed in a wide variety of aircraft from PA18's to Cessna 185's. My aircraft was parked all winter up here, in this cold WX, and come spring started on first try. No charging, no problems. And furthermore, will actually crank BETTER in the cold WX up here then any of the full sized lead acid batteries such as Gill or Concord.

Up here it's pretty much a no-brainer with FAA approval because of the shear numbers of these out there that have been approved with no issues that I've ever heard of. Down there, it's another matter as many of the FSDO's have pretty much got out of field approval business period! They just flat don't want to put their name on anything anymore which is just a big government sign of the times and they can... They want STC's on everything which totally relieves them of any independent thinking, or liability so they claim. Unfortunately this has contributed to a whole new class of outlaws doing as they see fit, which to me is much more dangerous, but is a fact. Another FAA problem is lack of inspectors anymore with any kind of serious GA background and experience as most aircraft inspectors they hire anymore are coming from military backgrounds account of hiring restraints and their methods of scoring applicants. Most of the old time GA guys have long since retired. Bottom line, if you can't get FSDO concurrence, I would suggest working with a certified repair station who has a qualified engineer on staff. They can approve this installation with no field approval required, simply by running a few numbers and crunching same. I have found that when the FAA starts asking all kinds of questions, they'll most likely come up with some kind of justification in their minds to decline the approval. Some times just burying them in paperwork will get the approval, but it will take some time and effort that most IA's don't have these days, nor could you afford the cost of his time. If you have a GA friendly FSDO, this is a pretty easy approval, for many FSDO's we're just a pain in the Arse!!! That's my 2 cents worth after 40yrs in aviation anyway!!

RT · Post by RT » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:16 am

Hey Jim appreciate your advice on this forum because it comes from real world experience, so I'm not trying to start an argument. If the FAA dosen't want to do a field approval as is the case where I'm at, I think installing the PMA battery in the original location as a minor alteration is an avenue to pursue by some of the folks down here.

Tomkatz · Post by **Tomkatz** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:42 pm

I fabricated a battery tray reducer for the SBS j16. This battery is already PMA'sd. and is Odyssey's equivalent to the 680. The 337 is being processed as we text. No rocket science here, most of the RVs are powered by the Odyssey 680 or the equivalent sbsj-16.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:15 pm

I agree that in reality this is probably only a minor alteration, especially if using the original battery box and location. Up here it's always been a field approval, but that's easily done here so no big deal... Down there I keep hearing horror stories on anything out of ordinary, and if you change location or box, then it may be questionable due to structural changes, w&b, etc.... If it were me down there, I think I'd do the logbook entry only and call it good. Chances are the only person you may have a problem with would be your IA on an annual inspection anyway. The definition of major vs minor alteration is so ambiguous I think the argument wouldn't be much of an issue, especially with feds attitude on field approvals anymore...

gbarrier · Post by **gbarrier** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:17 pm

Hey Maule998ms. I totally agree with aero that an analysis should not be needed for the Maule. On the other hand, your local feds are the only show in town so do a little dog and pony show for them and get on with it.

The following text was from a 337 which I had forwarded and my local fed had looked over and told me to bring it in and he would approve it. Then I found out I didn't like the weight and balance situation I was about to create and abandoned the project for now. Use an ammeter between the battery and solenoid and read the loads for your airplane. It's nothing special, just a little smoke and rear view mirrors to make them happy. After nearly 40 years in the business one learns it is easier to make it happen than to argue who is right.

Good luck.

Following data to show compliance with FAR 23.1353(3)(h):
Items considered essential for continued safe flight: 1 nav & 1 com
(KX155), transponder & encoder, naviation lights, and anti-collision
lighting.

Total combined draw of above listed items shown to include the
master relay and hardwired electronic engine instruments during test
with certified digital ammeter: 13.5 Amps

The Enersys/Hawker SBS-J16 battery is capable of supplying 25 amps for 25 minutes. Therefore this battery should support the necessary load for 46 minutes. Allowing five minutes to recognize the failure and shut down non essential items which are second navcom/GPS (Garmin 430W @ 2 amps) and alternator field at 5 amps the system should operate for 43 minutes.

Maule988ms · Post by **Maule988ms** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:52 am

Thank you all for your information and time. I'll let you know how it turns out. If you think of anything else let me know.

Odyssey Battery

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