McCall Mountain & Canyon Flying Seminar Report

[Green Hornet]

Please keep in mind that I am a relatively low hour flat lander that is still learning how to fly & maintain my aircraft.
However after all is said and done I highly recommend this training even if you choose never to go it alone in the Mountains or Canyons. The course certainly brings to the forefront any personal deficiencies & or bad habits that one has acquired. I have only been a pilot for the past 5 years with 500 hrs.
In addition I have had a very tough time making the transition from a 90 HP Citabria to Maule 235 HP. This especially pertains to the landing consistency.
First and foremost I know that taking this seminar has increased my confidence level a tremendous amount when it comes to control and landing the aircraft. Note: I had VG's and Patroller doors installed a week prior to attending the class. The VG's IMHO is what this type of flying is all about slow flight, slow flight, slow flight. With out any question VG's offer more control at slow flight and I got feedback as to the installation from experts.
One of the huge benefits of this seminar is the inspection of the aircraft by the instructors. The instructor that did my inspection owns his own repair shop and informed me of key parts of preflight that no one or any checklist ever pointed out to me in the past paid for instruction. In addition he told me the cycling the PROP is not a good thing. The concept that cycling the prop gets oil circulating is a false premise. It is the governor that gets oil to the PROP and the cycling can damage the PROP.
There were many more little tidbits in this analysis and explanation of my methodology that were pointed out to me.
You will fly a minimum with 4 instructors at least 9 hours or more. You are taught navigation in Canyons, how to traverse Mountains. How to analyze an airstrip for landing. I flew into airstrips of all degree's of difficulty. There are a few that the instructors will not take you into. All I can say is no problem because the one's I went into are enough for me right now.
Also discussed is what type of weather will kill you in the Mountains & or ruin your day. Also included is a ground school whereby you are given presentations on key concepts and a give and take discussion on personal limitations.
I know that I came out of this experience a better pilot especially in the flat lands. As for the mountain and Canyons that remains to be seen but with more training and experience I am certain I can achieve the goal in time. It is all about the repetitions and practicing what I learned until it becomes second nature. In that I chose not to go it alone this trip into Johnson Creek to the BCP/ Maule flyin. I sorely wanted to join everybody but I was concerned about the traffic and my ability after 4 days. I had been into JC only once on the first day There was a reported 60 airplanes at Johnson Creek. I am slow to tempt things that are over my head. I learned the the hard way. Almost drowned after an hour in a pool, scuba diving in Florida, Young & Dumb, suffered compressed fracture of vertebrae parachuting. Improper Preparation.
The McCall seminar offers advanced classes as well as individual lessons.
In addition I can practice what I have learned and it has given me the confidence to visit all the Mountain airports in California. They are a lot less intimidating then they used to be before McCall back country.
Every thing is relative to your individual experience but if you are considering more training this is an excellent course and worth the price of admission.
I did get to meet some of the Maulers and put a face to a screen name at McCall. I look forward to the next opportunity to meet more of you.

[mauleace]

I give you a lot of credit for (1) listening to your inner voice and not allowing your ego to push you to make a fling decision you were not comfortable with. And (2) sharing that with everyone.

I am sure you have heard about the 182 that ended up in the trees @ 3U2 on a botched landing. I witnessed the 1st two bounces and oscillations but did not see the collapsing nose wheel, prop strike and uncontrolled crash into the woods. God was looking out for someone, if he would have veered east instead of west, there would have been a lot of property damage to other aircraft and possibly injured bystanders. The guy was low hours and was flying a plane that had been extensively restored. He reported the engine had only five hours SMOH. Gratefully, he was alone and no one was injured. But he was in way over his head. As you mentioned, slow, slow, slow, while was going fast, fast, fast. The result was a very expensive and embarrassing flying lesson.

It took me 100 hours in my Maule before I was comfortable landing it. With 500 hours in it now, I still pay very close attention to all landings, especially when there is a crosswind. I have been into 3U2 several times. And, I always stay the night in McCall on mid week and make the leg to 3U2 in the cool still air of the early morning. I do not fly in the canyons when I am away from Idaho, and I may make 1 or 2 trips in a year to Idaho. Every time I go, it feels new. I use a lot of caution and commend you for yours.

[Green Hornet]

Mauleace,
Thanks for the support! I have a friend who hangars a Cessna 180 at Petuluma. I get over there every so often. I'll let you know when so I can pick your brain about the Maule over lunch.

[a64pilot]

Were you told how cycling the prop was bad for it? I'm a proponent of cycling because the prop is a dead end as far as oil flow is concerned, there is no flow. Cycling is an attempt to exchange the oil in the end of the crank. I admit, I have no proof that it works, but I have removed props from some engines that the oil in the crank was mostly sludge and some that weren't.
Unless it's very cold, I don't see how cycling could damage a prop?

[Green Hornet]

They mentioned the propeller blades I am certain of that and possibly some interface mechanism from the engine to the prop. I am trying to get a clarification on the latter but they definitely mentioned the prop.

[Green Hornet]

This is the response I got from one of my instructors.

Bill I don't know exactly how to respond to this kind of stuff.
Everybody has what they think are the right ways to do things and we
who teach and fly thousands of hours in the backcountry have our
opinions and methods too. In this case the prop talk is based on
pilots and mechanics who use, service and replace governors and props.
All I can say is everyone, including you, have the right to learn as
much as you can about the parts and how they are used and then decide
for yourself how they should be operated. I will tell you that this
response is understandable from manufacturers who are worried about
being sued, and yes explaining a procedure and policy that will work
for as many people as possible.

hope this keeps the hot water from scalding you.
artie

[a64pilot]

I've had a couple of explanations as to why not cycle a prop, from excessively lugging an engine to "it will drop the engine oil pressure too much". I don't think most people really understand how some of the systems work. Flight instructors are the worst for spreading rumors. They mean well and have a captive audience, and people listen to them on things they really don't know what they are talking about. The military instructor pilots are the worst.
On most single engine recip aircraft the prop is driven to flat pitch by a spring in the hub of the prop. Engine oil pressure is used to overcome this spring pressure to increase prop pitch. You do not directly control prop pitch, you control prop RPM with the prop governor. The prop governor will send oil pressure to the prop or remove it to control RPM. That's why nothing will happen if you try to cycle the prop at a low RPM. If the engine looses oil pressure, the prop will be forced by spring pressure to the high RPM stop. That is why pulling the prop lever out in the event of an engine failure won't help anything, as the engine slows to a stop, the oil pressure will be lost and the prop will return to flat pitch and as the engine slows, the govenor will flatten the pitch to try to maintain the RPM that corresponds to the min. setting of the governor. Most instructors are sold on this helping because it will in fact help if you just simulate an engine failure, but not if it really quits. Your best glide ratio will be with the prop stopped, not windmilling.
Now if it is real cold, then cycling the prop may be bad on the cold seals, I don't know, but if it is real cold, how are you going to get that congealed oil out of the prop so that it will function properly without cycling it? My 2 cents is to exercize everything the airplane has frequently. Things on an airpalane seem to work better if frequently used.
I guess where this is going is do what the manufacturers tell you to do in the run-up, if that doesn't work you can call them and ask why.

[Kirk]

Personally, I've never heard anyone say NOT to cycle a prop. Where I learned to fly there were extremely cold winters and we were careful to preheat the propeller hub/dome.

I did see a few props blow seals in winter that had not been preheated well and very little warm up. But we're talking temps in single digits (F) with poor piloting technique.

Better to have had the seal blow in the runup area than on the takeoff roll. Cycling that old oil out is definitely good too. The only time I really don't cycle the prop much is on a through flight in warm weather, even the, I'll give it one short pull and push it back in as soon as the RPM starts to drop.

If the blades or engine can't take the stress of a runup they shouldn't be on the airplane.

IMHO
Kirk

[TomD]

I would guess the advice to not cycle the prop comes from the conditions one finds in many back country strips, lots of rocks and gravel.

Cycling the prop could suck rocks or gravel into the blades and the chance of this happening weighed against not cycling would make not cycling the choice.

I know on seaplanes mag checks and prop cycling has to be done on the move since the brakes don't work too well on the water. I have yet to run into a float instructor who said not to cycle, but all cautioned to keep the nose up out of the spray. This is the floatplane equivalent of not sucking gravel into the prop.

$0.02

TD

[M4-220]

Cycle the prop all the way till you see the oil presure jump up a litle. That way it went to the bottom and let oil flow through. I was told this by one instructer and do this in my TIO550.

[denningte]

Consider that most FAA guidance on instruction is oriented toward C172 (or now Cirrus and Diamond) flying from hard surfaces. Missionizing your flight operations to the back country requires a shift of thinking to the environment you will be in. For instance, run-ups of any kind on loose dirt will increase the risk of prop damage. Run-ups in extreme cold to cycle a prop whose hub has been dangling in the cold air increases the risk of seal failure. Careful consideration to where you are and what risk you are willing to accept in a change of procedure is called in the back country. I accept that a run-up is not required on back country dirt hence no cycle or run-up for me until I exit to hard surface for a grocery run or fill-up. Then I do normal hard surface ops.

I agree with the earlier comment about CFIs and especially military transplants. We are trainable though.

[andy]

I'm a proponent of cycling the prop 1-2 times to make sure it's working. You don't want to find out that it's not when you take off. One cycle is usually enough when the oil is at normal operating temperature but it takes two cycles to get a complete response when it's not. I only let the RPM drop about 200 RPM to keep from overstressing the engine.

Andy