Landing with Back Seats full?

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:36 am

I've had some encouraging preliminary news from my repair shop. They've had a quick look already, but will give it a good going iver on Monday. But at first glance said it doesnt look bad, and recommended holding off on calling my insurance.

Llano is already increasingly likely for me this year too.

But first, some practice laps around the circuit. Actually, I'd reaaly like to get some more guidance from Rick, but this time in my own plane.

stevesMaule180 · Post by **stevesMaule180** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:20 am

Brenton,

For pennance, re-read what Loogie said 3x each day, for next six months.
Fly Fly Fly.

I was almost "signed off" for TW endorsement in a gorgeous tailwheel mail, when I decided to buy a Maule nosewheel.
This decision was not easy, but after seeing my instructor's student ground loop, and an ATP active pilot Gloop his experimental airplane in a period of only 2-weeks .... well, let's just say other people helped me make the decision to go tricycle.

There is a reason TW insurance is >2x the insurance of Nose draggers. It is not that you were a bad pilot, just that TW's are unforgiving, what-so-ever.

IF your TRUE desire is back country flying, and landing on 'a postage stamp', stick with your TailWheel.

Like LOOGIE says, go with 3-point landings ONLY!
My TWheel instructor is one of the best pilots in this country, and he would not let me do 'wheels' at all. He discouraged Wheel landings in Maule due to lower control effectiveness at low speeds.

I fly a good amount (>600 hrs over 6 years), and attest that I have landed in some very windy 'shit-storm' crosswinds in my nose wheel. If I was in a tail-wheel in those same situations, a ground loop would most likely have occurred. Statistics rule.

I have utmost respect for any Tail Wheel pilot, but my contempt at mother natures ability to create cruel winds, with zero warning time, has brought me to nose wheel flying.

We are all human, and not perfect. Take a well trained pilot, and well rested too, ... but yet a split second mis-judgement can occur.

Good luck.

Whatever you choose, please do not give up.

Best for 2015.

Steve
2008 Maule MXT-7-180.

Mountain Doctor · Post by **Mountain Doctor** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:56 am

Very thoughtful and informative and well said post, Steve. Your experience mirrors mine exactly. This is one of the reasons that I decided to buy a tri-gear. I have found that my tri-gear will get me in and out of any Idaho Washington or Oregon strip that I feel it is appropriate for me to go to.

PatinLoco · Post by **PatinLoco** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:03 am

Steve:

I understand, and respect your point of view. I love flying trikes, as I do any airplane. I have more hours in trikes in my logbook, specially because most of my time is in twins (all but one, trikes). But, all, except one, of my aircraft are TW. Why? Because I love the challenge, and being part of a smaller, more exclusive community. I am not saying that trike pilots are less competent or enthusiastic. My brother has over 10,000 hours, and every single one of those hours are in trikes. He is not interested at all in flying a taildragger! And, he's a great pilot. It's a matter of taste.

I believe, from personal experience, that the ground loops to my name, and flying TW airplanes, and going out and challenging myself, have made me a better pilot. Even the ground loops have taught me a lot, not only as a pilot, but as a person.

My point is, Steve, that it's a personal choice. Even if he is not interested in landing "on a postage stamp". When I want to land on a postage stamp, I fly a chopper! I still fly a taildragger the rest of the time.

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:34 am

I sure appreciate all the input and advice I'm getting. I can certainly see for myself why some of you explored the TW, and decided to go the different way!

At this point, I don't want to surrender the TW, but it's an option I may come back to at some point.

Mountain Doctor · Post by **Mountain Doctor** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Brenton C wrote:I sure appreciate all the input and advice I'm getting. I can certainly see for myself why some of you explored the TW, and decided to go the different way!

At this point, I don't want to surrender the TW, but it's an option I may come back to at some point.

With the nose wheel you lose some extreme off airport ability, ramp presence, a little speed, and maybe a half inch of dick size.

You gain about $1,500/year in insurance savings (that's like free maintenance and annual for me), and some peace of mind and safety.

Trust me, flying well is not 'easy' in a nosewhelel per-se either.

PatinLoco · Post by **PatinLoco** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:32 pm

You got a point there, Doc!

Beamerpilot · Post by **Beamerpilot** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:58 am

Hi Brenton,
I heard about an incident at High River and wondered if it was one of us. Glad to hear all went well for pax and limited damage to the Maule.
As for ground loops it's your last one...so keep at it.

Most of us have been there, two for me one with my Cessna 170 at the Ottawa Gatineau airport with a 90 degree xwind and one while checking out a new Maule pilot (joined Circle V Flying Club) at the Rockliffe airport. No damage in either but that was luck more than anything else. That was back in the 80s.
With more than 40 years of commercial flying and a valid instructor rating under my belt I went to Greg myself for instruction following my Maule purchase. Well worth it since I hadn't flown a light tail dragger in years.
As for 3 point or wheel landing, the debate will go on until the last tail dragger hits the museum. When conditions are somewhat uncertain I still 3 point it in and pin that tail wheel down with elevators, it just works for me.
Let me know (PM)if you decide to fly north of Red Deer some day, we occasionally have a few Maules on my strip. Sometimes it's good to just sit in the right seat with another pilot and absorb.
Cheers,
Guy

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:51 am

Hi Guy,

Yes, that would have been me you heard about. Word gets around.

Thanks for your thoughts.

How far North of Dead Dear are you? It would be good fun to meet, and it sounds like you're pretty close. Although, AB is a pretty big province. You might not be close at all!

Beamerpilot · Post by **Beamerpilot** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:58 am

Just off Hw 611 East of Hoadley.

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:40 am

Guy,
Looks to me as if that'd make a nice day trip -- about 1:30 flight to, I presume, CFC7 is the airport?

Beamerpilot · Post by **Beamerpilot** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:28 am

Yes Rimbey is the closest but we have a strip and hangar on the ranch. 2800 feet total but we only maintain 1350 feet. Snow blower in winter and regularly mowed in summer.
Enough of us Maule drivers up here to make you reconsider quitting.
Cheers.

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:07 pm

Another factor?

One thing I didnt mention was that my plane is shod with some over-sized AirHawk tires. I'm not sure the size, but they're smaller than the 31"ers some of you have. You can sort of see them in my avatar.

Talking to my repair shop,today, they recommended replacing them with a more standard size until I build up some 50 or 60 PIC hours in my own bird.

The suggestion was that these big tires are less forgiving on pavement, and help things go bad fast, when things go a bit awry.

I wonder if others have experience about this aspect?

Also, by way of updates, one or two wing struts are damaged, so my insurance company will be involved again, after all. D@mn it!

Njacko · Post by **Njacko** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:31 pm

I would say the reverse. My Maule seems much more forgiving/controllable with 31" ABWs and double puck brakes. Never going back. Anyone want a used pair of MX-7-180 wheels, discs and 8.50x6 Goodyears?

If your knackered struts are the old type requiring annual inspection AD, then trashing them could be a blessing.

Most of all, don't give up on conventional gear. Even trikes can get blown off the runway:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... rport.html

Peter.

Brenton C · Post by **Brenton C** » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:52 pm

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your input here.

Unfortunately, they were the nice new style sealed struts. No upgrade by way of misadventure to be had there.

I have decided that I refuse to be discouraged by this episode. I"m eager to get back up and get practicing, developing my skills, and most of all, enjoying the privilege I've worked so hard for.

Landing with Back Seats full?

ground loops

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