Coordinated control in low speed descent to landing

[Paul Amstutz]

M7, IO 540, 3/4 tank, 180lbs of pilot and flight bag, DA 6800'

Had an unusual no wind morning this past week and got a couple dozen practice landings in, worked on 60mph base, 55mph final, 3 notches on final, power for airspeed/pitch for aim technique, and tried to make the turns standard rate and a coordinated as I could. Varied steepness/power (300-700fpm descent) but not intentionally anything else. With calm air, I could pay attention to more details. If you haven't fallen asleep or stopped reading, I will get to the point.

At 60mph or less and turning in deliberately/slowly with rudder only to a standard rate turn, and maybe feeding in a little opposite aileron when approaching standard rate or no aileron at all, gave the best coordinated turns.

This surprised me, so I kept trying it, and it seemed the easiest way to consistently get a coordinated turn in this situation. It is somewhat embarassing that I haven't figured this out in the 170 some hours I have been flying this plane

Anyway, for the real Maule pilots out there:
Is this common to all Maules?
Since I am obviously still learning about this part of the envelope, is there
anything else in the neighborhood I should know about before it bites me?
Any other discussion about what to look out for/best technique in this area would be appreciated. thanks, paul

[UtahMaule]

Normal and correct IMHO. Slow = Rudder (lots of it at times)

Sounds like you are dead on to me. I would offer this, when slow you can make fairly steep banks comfortably by not pulling the nose, even dropping it a little and adding power (lots of it at times) I like to practice slow steep turns and make a point to keep your airspeed dead on. This takes practice, bring the power out before you take the bank away or you'll get hot. It gives you the ability to maneuver in very small space and keep airspeed low for a short landing right after the turn. Fun stuff.

When light, practice steep approaches with the power and yoke all the way back (ALL the way) fly to your touchdown spot with rudder and flair with power and/or relaxed back pressure. More fun.

[Paul Amstutz]

Thanks for the reply and the additional comments. They really started me thinking (thinking about flying is close to flying in my top ten things to do so it didn't take a lot).

Your comments about dropping the AOA a little in slow steep turns and in a flare, along with comments Jeremy has made about very slow landings just above a stall with a little nose down at flare, were something I couldn't immediately understand what was happening. So I found a graph for a USA 35B airfoil. I think I understand but I would like some feedback before I go out and try out my newfound wisdom. It appears you are describing "flying behind the lift coefficient curve". I haven't heard that term used (or if I did it blew right over my head, applogies to all who have tried to teach me) but it seemed to fit, please correct me if there is more appropriate terminology. Generally as you increase the AOA the CL increases and, in the 35B at least, gradually stops increasing and then begins to drop, the wing loosing lift at somewhere along the downward slope, and stalls. You can fly "behind the CL peak", but if you need more lift, to arrest sink or bank steeply, you need to put the nose down. Well OK, somewhat counter intuitive but that is how I learned to get out of a stall condition, and I think that reflex if fairly reliable. But I have always thought of this situation as one to stay far away from, not fly around right next to. However, if I am going to land short out in the desert and not run off the end of the rwy, then I will need to get comfortable in this realm.

I have noted that occaisionally when practicing 55mph finals, that my airspeed has dropped to 50 on a several occaisions (must have been the wind changing ). I feel comfortable now with arresting the high sink rate that accompanies this by just putting the nose down (I thought I was just increasing airspeed) if still 200AGL and maybe adding a little power if looks like I'm coming up short, or by adding a lot of power and putting the nose down if 50AGL. Just putting the nose down begins to arrest the sink right away-I must have been behind the CL curve. So, maybe I can get some altitude and try a "final" at 50mph, use the rudder for directional control, try to get a feel for putting the nose down and how much/fast this affects the sink. As I get comfortable with that, I would go slower until I stall, then hopefully learn how it feels just before the stall with enough certainty that I can do as Jeremy suggests, and do the landing by feel not by the airspeed indicator. If I can't learn the feel of being just before the stall AOA, then I will just make sure I use longer rwys.

It seems that there may be two general themes when doing this type of flying: a) use the rudder as primary directional control b) be assertive with the throttle because you are also behind the power curve.

Anyway, this seems like something fun to work on. Any ideas on exercises/technique/flap settings/variations depending on wind/etc are welcome, I would rather have a change of mind while I am on the ground than while flying. thanks, paul

[UtahMaule]

Too much technical thinking there for me. Sorry.

When light, power back, and full flaps it won't stall. That's the point. If heavy then feel for the edge.

You can practice your steep full yoke back approaches with the intent to fly out of the flare into a low pass and go do it again. As you feel the way it flys out of that type of approach you can add the actual landing later on. Using ground effect helps too. Makes cool looking wheel landings.

Don't look down at the airspeed so much. It won't be reading much anyway. 40ish, but it's not real accurate down there. Use feel in the yoke. Be consistent with trim. So you have the same feel each time. I like to trim on downwind for 85 and don't touch it again. Less is more with trim. Your arm can handle it.

Never be afraid to stab power. All of it. In fact plan on it every time and if it turns out you don't need to it's a bonus.

I always use full flaps. For the worst cross wind I've encountered that has worked out fine for me. I like to wheel on and instantly go to full aileron into the wind. That does more than just hold the upwind wing down. It creates more drag way out on the one wing tip and reduces drag way out on the other wing tip. Conveniently that twist the nose against the weather vane effect and makes roll out very stable with less rudder than you'd think. Full aileron, immediately, trust me.

[m-4-235]

AAAAH, You had to go and say "TRUST ME" didn't ya !

[UtahMaule]

What good is a line of BS without a "trust me" thrown in??

[Paul Amstutz]

Thanks for the discussion, I'm itchin' to get out and give it a go. I havn't practiced any stalls for three or four months so I'll start with that and then try your suggestions. Probably from about 4000' AGL. Not because I don't trust you, I don't necessisarily trust me. Afterall what's not to trust? Its on the internet. thanks, paul

[UtahMaule]

Probably from about 4000' AGL

IMHO there is only a little to be learned way up there. You can go up and do some power off full flap yoke back descents and prove to yourself that you can recover (flare) with no problem. Once you've done that you should go do them as if you are acctually going to land. Even if you fly out of the approach at 200 AGL and work your way down from there. You need the reference to the ground to put it all together.

At 4000 AGL your eyes will be stuck to your gauges. At <500 AGL your eyes should not come inside.

It really is a safe feeling type of approach. If you need to extend, just lower the nose. If you get up this way give me a holler, and we'll go out and practice on some dirt.

[Paul Amstutz]

I appreciate the coaching. It looks like another couple of weeks before I can go flying and give it a try. Once I give it a go I'll probably have more questions. At some point I'd like to meet up, looks like you are in the same state, and go get the tires dirty. So far I've been out in the Hanksville area, and I'm always looking for more interesting places. paul