To Wheel Land it or NOT to Wheel Land it...

[210TC]

Come on you Guy's, Many of you have more to say. Just spit it out, we are all waiting.
And thanks to those whom have shared with us on this issue.
Please let us know how you handle cross wind situations. If it is the same as other's have stated, so be it. WE WANT TO KNOW.

[Rocketman]

I guess it's one of those "To each his own" kind of things. I voted for wheel landings because it is the most comfortable to me.
My M4 had a Scott 3200 and I never had any problems with shimmy. My leaf spring was from some other unknown aircraft. So the TW had nothing to do with it. What I do know is that after dealing with a broken chain a few times taught me to keep up with TW maintenance.
Unless I was going into a landing zone way less than 1000 feet it was a wheel landing. I remember a few times I had to use breaks to keep it straight in a cross wind but that was no big deal either.
I live in the southeastern US so when the wind is blowing so hard to be a problem, you didn't need to be flying no airplane anyway.
The maule is a safe, easy to handle, tough TW airplane. You don't believe that, try a few hundred in a Cessna 188 agplane. That thing will hand you a PHD in ground handling a tail wheel airplane, for sure.
Oh, and did I say that I miss my Maule. Of all that I've owned or just flown, the M4 was my heart. I hope to own another one some day.

[beaver]

can and do both with various flap settings, I strongly agree with Jeremy you should / must be able to do all, otherwise do you consider yourself really to be "pilot in command" I don't do either as a standard, I vary each depending on length, where I touch down vs where I want to turn off, wind, runway condition etc. Maybe I prefer wheelie's a bit but no real reason.

[Orion]

I took Jeremy's plan to the airport this morning. I learned a lot!

Conditions: Light and variable winds on a 5,220 X 100 asphalt runway.

Aircraft: M7-260C, VGs, 8.50s, 3-blade Scimitar prop.

Pilot: ~3,800hrs, ~1,600hr TW, ~750 in Maules, ATP, I've owned 3 Maules (MX5-180C, MX7-180A, and now M7-260C), Luscombe 8a, Pitts S1C, 2 Christen Eagles.... I almost always make 3-points...

1. -7 degrees of flaps had me stabilized at 65kias, 1800rpm, 480fpm rate of descent. Normal approach attitude. Lot's of authority in the flare...Didn't bleed-off speed at all...Float, float, float...kaplunk...Maule flop, tailwheel first, bounce, bounce, bounce... Comments: Didn't like the feel and don't see why we'd land this way. Did it again as a wheelie and still don't see why you'd land this way. But, I did it.

2. Flaps 0 was a normal affair...nothing noteworthy.

3. Flaps 24 was again normal affair...

4. Flaps 40 was where the fun began for me. Now, let me add that I am a lousy pilot as far as Maule pilots go to begin with. This big engine bird has me scratching my head. [Sidebar: I flew my last 180 horse Maule home to Atlanta from Torrence CA several years ago. Had a ball. Landed in Blythe, CA for fuel in 45kt winds right down the runway! I literally hovered on final over I-10! Took off from the ramp with about 4 revolutions of the wheels... Point is, I am, or was, a pretty safe and confident Maule pilot...then the "Big Girl" moved in to the hangar...back to landing debriefs] I stabilized on final at around 60kts and 1,700rpm and all was well into ground effect when I began my flare. The airplane leveled at 2ft above the runway and stayed there. I pulled power off and waited, and waited... no desire to quit flying was noted. I eased off the elevator and touched on the mains...somewhat firmly, shall we say. Bounce, bounce, bounce....eased in a bit of power and remained on the runway. Flaps 7, forward trim, and on the go. Mopped liberal streams of sweat from my brow, calmed my pulse and swore that it was a fluke.

5. Flaps 48!!! After doing a short tour of the countryside to calm my nerves, I configured for pattern entry...Flaps 7 at mid-field downwind, power 2200rpm. Flaps 24 abeam the numbers on downwind, power 2000rpm, Flaps 40 on base, power to 1700rpm; Flaps 48 on final, power 1,700 airspeed 60kias, 500fpm sink. Well....it's like this. With just me aboard, 30gals of gas, flaps 48, I can't get the damn thing to stop flying. I'd do shorter landings in a Mooney!!! I'm certain I have too much airspeed. I've done slow air work and there isn't a Vso. It just sinks at 28kias at 1500rpm. So 1.3 times Vso is scary! Is that what I should be looking for here? Power-on Stalls have a deck angle approaching that of a hammerhead in the Eagle. I think the 260 is some mutant form of helicopter!

I'm safe in the airplane...I know my limits and only hope someday to find the limits of the Orion without bending it. I've gone IMC cross-country in it over the last several weeks and it's as sweet a flying machine as I've ever flown. I owe her a more talented PIC than I'm currently bringing to the dance. So... Take your shots! Jeremy?

Jud Brandt (aka Orion)

[a64pilot]

Orion,
How hot was it? when it's hot I've had the aircraft transition from a definite sink while over the grass to a definite climb as soon as she get's over the pavement from the thermals. I assume the Maule has a low wing loading and the lower the wing loading, the more effect from the heat of the runway.
When I practice short field landings, I will maintain 80 kts and 800 ft.AGL until my intended point of touchdown goes under the nose, then it's power to idle and flaps to full. I will hold approx 65 mph until the flare. It gives me a steep approach angle for when there are obstacles to clear. As you get better, you can work on lowering that 65 mph speed, but be careful, I got mine low enough that it took a long time to repair the aircraft. Mine at least will fly happily slow enough that there is no flare at the bottom. I'm sure I could have saved it with throttle, but I didn't get my head out of my fore point of contact in time.
I'm not trying to teach you anything except to not make the same mistake that I did. Yes it's a mutant helicopter, and just like a helicopter if you let it get too vertical at the bottom of an autorotation, then only power will save you.

[UP-M5]

i've never flown an m7-260, but it seems you are going way too fast.
alone, with 30 gallons onboard, using full flaps (48*) for a short field landing in my M5- i will use roughly 55 mph, engine idling around 1000 rpm, and very steep approach. there is still usually enough speed to produce a nice flare in ground effect. using 50 mph will get you in shorter, but that takes power in the flare, and will result in a tailwheel first landing. a maule "plunker", but very effective.
i don't know how the IO-540 responds to quick bursts of power coming off idle- so try this with lots of altitude a few times to convince yourself.


back to the original question-
i wheelie and 3 point. usually wheelies on pavement landings just to get out of the way. usually 3 pointers when the wind is a mess. 3 point when going in short. and now that i got my bushwheels installed, i have found wheel landings to be much better for gravel bars. i can still get in shorter in a steep 3 point, but the wheelie gives much better forward vis and keeps my poor little tailwheel off the rocks until i stop.

[maules.com]

Not shots, but checks. First, each entry here is different, some mph and some knots, this is important as it is a big difference. At 48deg the flaps do not fully deploy until you get down to 54/55 MPH, so if you are faster they are still coming down and thus you will float.
Next, to have enough elevator control to achieve a flare when empty in the back and just pilot and 30gals up front it is important to roll the elevator trim indicater back no more than 3/8 to 1/2inches.
When first tyre touches or a couple inches above the touch point, get rid of ALL flaps to -7 and the plane will not bounce or deviate.
Do not inadvertantly roll the yoke from where you want it for lateral correction when you release the flap handle all the way down.
You can practice the flap action with no aileron action while taxiing at 20-30mph.
Lastly do a weight and balance to see where your cg is relative to the limits in the ops. manual and this will help explain the need to keep elevator trim minimal, then try it again with 4 aboard.

[MikeW]

Not to beat a dead horse here but these approach speeds are fast. I have a M-4 and my normal approach speed for a short field on final is 40mph indicated. For a wheel landing I use 55MPH. You folks with the long wing Maules should be slower that me unless your loaded to the gills I should think. These airplanes fly really slow. (the super cub guys are laughing right now) This is where stalling the airplane and noting the airspeed will give the pilot more confidence in flying at a slower speed. This is one area that seperates tailwheels from tricycle. It just doesn't work to carry a lot of airspeed to the runway and then chop power and let it plunk down like a 172. Usually, in a tailwheel, the pilot is looking outside and using his deck angle, stick position and the "seat of the pants" coming in over the fence and not looking at the airspeed indicator.

Mike

[a64pilot]

Mike,
I don't know if it's pitot tube location error (cal factor) or just simply that an M-4 will fly slower than my M-6-235, but My M-6 will not even fly at 40 mph, much less have a 40 mph approach speed. Full flaps, full Mains it will indicate 45 mph or so with the elevator trim zeroed and the yolk full back. Of course if I shoot an approach at that speed, I will impact the ground at whatever sink rate I have because there is no elevator left for the flare. Now pitot tubes are notoriously inaccurate at high angles of attack, so maybe your airspeed is a little higher than 40 mph, or maybe it's mine that's off. I know the VG's changed my stall AOA, I know this because I had to adjust the stall warning tab to keep the warning between 5 to 10 mph before a stall, so maybe it's mine that's off.
Yes the Super Cub guy's are laughing at our approach speeds, but I laugh at them when they see how much stuff I pack into the Maule, file IFR, fly IMC and criuise at 130Kts. I think to equal a Super Cub's approach speed, you would have to basically become one. In the long prop video Greg AKA Maule Guy says his aircraft is a 90 mph max airplane. Works for him because he lands in shorter distances than I need to crash, but if I had a 90 mph airplane, then I couldn't make the trip to Alaska this summer.
65 mph for an approach speed wasn't meant to be anything but a safe place to start. I would have to ask Jeremy, because I don't know, but I would think that the 260 Orion would have the highest approach speeds of any recip Maule, but 65 mph would be safe even for the Orion.
Not any kind of sarcasm here, but if you can shoot an approach at 40 mph., I would like to see it. It would be an impressive thing because I bet you can put that thing on a postage stamp.

[flyer]

Mike W

I am not too familiar with M-4 stall speeds. 40mph approach speed does not seem correct. Have you measured the accuracy of your airspeed indicator at this slow speed? Unless you used power, I do not think you would have energy left for a flare.

Most of these indications have some error. My tach was off by more than 200rpm. I question the indications on all of these instruments. If you know what speed your plane stalls at for varous weights, you can use those speeds as your reference. Those speeds might not work for anyone else because of errors and all of those variables.

I would caution everyone to find out what speed your plane stalls at with various weights and flap settings before you slow your approach speed too much. Most people that are not accustomed to short runways probably approach too fast.

Jeremy, once again, would have the most knowledge on minimum M-4 approach speeds.

See you at J.C.

flyer

[MikeW]

I'm sure your right regarding the error in A/S readings. I looked at a couple of performance specs and they show the stall speed of an M-6 at 38kts and an M-4 at 35kts, which, looking at the long wing and flap of an M-6 just doesn't seem right but I've never flown one. My manual is too old to have all the approach speeds in it but yours might. For a short field speed if your plane stalls at 38, 1.3VSO for you would be 45-46kts, and technically that should be at gross wt.


Mike

[flyer]

Mike W.

You are now talking about knots and not MPH. You originally said 40mph.
I am getting so confused.

flyer

[donknee]

M-4 and M-6's are apples and oranges, especially factoring engine weight and not just the wings. There has to be some error between pitot tubes and A/S indicators, too...as previously stated. Rigging, flaps, vg's, pilot skills, are variables.

There is a short landing contest at Copalis Beach on Sunday, about 9:00 am...just north of Hoquim, WA.

[MikeW]

Didn't mean to confuse anyone. My airspeed is MPH. The performance specs I found were Knots and I assume the newer airplanes are indicating knots. My overall point here was to encourage guys to take the time to stall and slowfly their airplane to get good numbers for their specific aircraft. Both straight and level and also take your min approach speed and to 30 degree bank turns left and right, it builds confidence flying in those lower speed ranges.


MikeW

[flyer]

Mike W.

The difference in stall speeds between an empty plane with one pilot and a heavily loaded plane can be significant. You should probably have different approach speeds for different weights.

I prefer to use angle of attack because it does not vary with weight. It only varies with flap settings. It is easier. As I get older, I need things to be easier.

flyer