I had the very fortunate pleasure of training a proficient pilot in his own Maule this last weekend. This gentleman has only done 3-pointers where ever he lands. Although he is quite proficient at the 3-pointers, he was doing A LOT of work all the way down final. I demonstrated how to do wheel landings and how much less effort was needed to keep it aimed to the runway.
So I was curious about how many other pilots are doing wheel landings on a regular basis.
I added a few poll options that you may or may not find... entertaining .
Oh, BTW... Me<-- CFI, CFII, ATP, tailwheel instructor, and former "freight dog" (in C-402's & Chieftans)
I didn't vote because, you didn't have an option that said sometimes I wheel it on and sometimes I don't. I'll wheel it on when I don't want to hold up other people in the traffic pattern for example.
I do believe that three pointers in at least the big engine Maule's is safest for the average pilot, but there are times when a wheelie is best. I believe you should be proficient in both.
I perfer a tail low wheel landing in most instances, and admit that I don't always pull them off. It's easy to convert a botched wheel into a three point.
I think this is a moot issue. Maule has ALWAYS recomended 3pointers.
I think these folks know what is best for the plane that has been in the family since birth.
Yes, some of us can land on one wheel tail up or tail down and some use the tire's to surf on water.
Follow the manufactures recomendation and if you get an ich scratch it.
I never wheel land the maule on the other hand I always wheel land my Harmon Rocket, because it makes me look cool and it's much easier.
I have to scratch the itch.
We all should be capable of both types of landings, if not then the changing wind can mess up your whole day. For instance, a nice headwind threepoint suddenly gets a gust on the nose, you have a choice, stay threepoint and balloon upwards, or put yoke forward into a wheel landing condition.
BD Maule did both landings. It was Ray who wrote the short article 'The ABC's of Takeoff and Landing' as recommended by R.K.Maule in 1993, on landing a Maule. It was originally for the Mexican gov't fleet and for some strange reason he referenced a good book, The Complete Taildragger Pilot by Plourde who advocates both types of landing including wheel landings, and then wrote, "whereas we don't recommend them in the Maule aircraft."
In my book this is a mistake and has become gossip, heresay, folklore or whatever. From there it has taken a life of it's own and because of it many new Maule pilots are not being taught this necessary skill and are subsequently groundlooping, noseing over, etc etc
Ray can wheel land as well as anyone.
A good safe pilot is 'proactive', one who can do with his airplane all the things that it can do with the pilot or you are just along for the ride and thus merely 're-active'.
I live 40 miles from the factory and before I got my Maule I spent six hours with Ray in three different Maules just doing takeoffs and landings. Ray will teach you one basic way to land a Maule and will not expand on that. I.E. on final reduce power to 15", run the trim all of the way up and three point it. Now his technique will work, but it is not always the best method, in my opinion there is no one method that will cover all of the bases. When I asked him why we weren't doing any wheel landings, I could tell that question kind of irritated him.
The one thing I hadn't really thought about until Jeremy brought it up is that running the trim all of the way up sets you up for a departure stall if you have to do a go around. I knew it would require a lot of downforce on the yolk, but did not appreciate how much until I did a go around at full power. I no longer run the trim full up anymore!
In Ray's defence, I believe that most of the time, most pilots will do better three pointing it. I believe that with stock wheel size it is very hard to touch down as slowly doing a wheelie as you will in a three point. I don't want to groundloop, but if it happens, I'd rather it happen at as slow a speed as possible.
I believe a Maule has a very low angle of incidence on the wing. I believe that's one reason they have a decent cruise speed. If it has a low angle of incidence then that would require a nose high attitude for a slow landing speed. Of course the big flaps do help hold the nose down.
If you watch Big Rocks and Long Props, I think that Greg almost always wheels it on. That works in his aircraft I think because his huge tires and extended gear will put his wing in a higher angle of attack than I can achieve in my aircraft with stock gear and 8.50's no matter what I do.
In other words the best way for the average pilot to land short and slow in a stock Maule is to let the tail wheel touch first in a three point configuration, but if you aren't confortable doing wheel landings, you might not know what to do when the tail comes up because you relaxed back pressure trying to stop the tail wheel from shimmying.
No it's not simple, but if you want simple buy a nose dragger.
I don't get it. I have found wheel landing more simple than 3points (speed can very greatly) and when I took my check ride to obtain my license I had to do a wheel landing.
I took my check ride in Banning Ca. If you ever see a picture of the wind generator farms between Palm Springs and Beaumont, this is the place.
My first twenty years of flying was in high heat and high wind conditions and more than once I was forced backwards on final in a 1946 Taylorcraft.
I have never had to wheel land any airplane do to winds and I have never ground looped.
My instructor was a WWII Navy flat deck pilot/instructor and he stated wheel landings leave you vulnerable just before the tail touches (no control). He said the only plane which the Navy wanted you to wheel land was a Beach 18 one of the planes used for instrument trainning in the early 50's. I'm sure other's needed the same.
I have also noticed that Air Force pilots do more wheel landing's than Navy pilots. I think this may have to do with landing on aircraft carrier's v. 8000 ft runways??? The area I live in now is mostly all Air Force.
SO THE ARGUMENT CONTINUES, tail up or tail down?? I side with Mr. Maule. caplunk?
I do both types of landing depending on what it takes. I was taught that any tailwheel can be safely wheel landed when doen properly. I am comfortable with both methods although I routinely land smoother in a 3 point stance when flying the Maule than I do in a wheelie. If my speed is a little faster than I like for a 3-pointer I just leave the tail flying and let her grease in on the mains.
Just do whatever it takes to get her down safe and keep her from spinning around.
"To most people, the sky is the limit. To a pilot, the sky is home."
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I'm with Jeremy, be 'proactive' and be able to do both cause when the dodo hits the fan the more tools you have in your tool box the better off you are.
I think there may be logic to the Navy / Airforce statement, if we are talking about back in the day's of the Army Air Corps and piston engine fighters. I have never done it myself, but I can see that the primary concern with landing on a carrier would be to ensure the tail hook catches the wire.
Is a wheel carrier landing even possible?
Whereas over the nose visability on short final may be real important if your landing on an unimproved or possibly bomb damaged surface.
I may be making logic out of nothing, but I can see why the Navy might have taught three points and the Army wheel landings.
I was made to demonstrate both type of landings when I got my sign off, I thought it was a requirement to demonstrate both?
I am glad to see that this sparked up some discussion.
Routines are a GREAT thing, but if you get too set in your ways, it just makes it that much tougher for a well-intentioned instructor to show you a different, perhaps better way...
Also, don't let "hear-say" be the gospel (as Jeremy eluded to). A good instructor/teacher/Sensei will give you illustrations of why a certain technique will or will not work.
For Example: Take your propeller and locate it in the vertical position (straight up and down). Get a couple of strong buddies and have them (carefully) lift your airplane's tail into the air until the prop is about 1" from the ground. Take a look at this angle from the outside. Next, go inside and sit in the pilot's seat. Have your same strong buddies lift the tail again into the air to the same postion while your sitting in the pilot's seat. Take a look at this position from your perspective... You will be AMAZED at how much clearance you really have for wheel landings.
Another way to keep in shape, and eventually become part of the airplane that you are directing, is to try 5 landings subsequently, each with a different flap setting and thus adjust speed accordingly. 0, -7, 24, 40, and 48 degrees. Then try each of these settings as a threepoint, and as a wheel landing. Take an instructor if you feel uncomfortable.
Good morning guys, here’s my two cents worth. My view is from 175 hr 65 hr in my M7. I live at the west end of the Columbia River Gorge. KTTD It is common for the wind here to blow 23G30 Kts straight down the pipe. When it is like that I like to wheel it on and it works fine. If I try to three point in that type of wind I have ballooned up further than I like. Do what works for you and never stop learning. Ready or not, JC and Valier here I come. Cheers…Rob
Ok, now switch wind direction. You have up to a 90 degree cross wind at 18 with gust to 25.
The 18 knots is at 75 degrees and as the gust jumps up to 25 it rotates to 90 degrees.
Tell us your proceedure.
Rob
I always wanted to wind surf the gorge, but never got to. I love it up in your neck of the woods. My favorite place is the Dalles, I hope I spelled that correctly, the cherry capitol.
My procedure would be to go in with the expectation that I was going around. I would fly my final ofset to the lee side as far as obstacles would allow, 48deg. flaps at 55mph max thus I would have a strong crab into the wind. My target would be the runway edge on the lee side 45deg. across from an outlet on the windward side. With judicious throttle, I would set the mains on the lee edge immediately running flaps to -7, and hold tail slightly up with strong braking.
With 18 gusting 25 almost on the nose, I would expect a ground roll of 50ft.
If I did'nt have experience in this sort of wind I would go to a nearby field and land into the wind or divert to another runway.
Most airports are aligned with the normal wind direction and it is seldom 90deg during the year.
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