Three-Point/Wheel Landings Revisited

[Andy Young]

I was reading some old posts about landings, which recommended practicing both three-point and wheel landings at all the different flap settings, including -7. I went out and did that today; it was quite fun and interesting. I am new to Maules so it was a good way for me to gain more familiarity with the airplane. By the way, this was in an M-6-235, with the original M-6 wing, droop tips included. Conditions were:
Field Elevation 5288 ft.
Wind: none
Temperature: 0 c
I found all the configurations and landings to be quite straightforward, except wheel landings at 0 and -7 flaps. In those configurations, I had a really hard time landing on the mains only. The deck angle on approach was somewhat nose-high, so any little bit of back-yoke to flair tended to make it want to do a three-point landing. I tried at higher speeds (70 mph over the fence) and even with a fair bit of power in (maybe 1500 rpm) but still about half the time, the tailwheel would touch on landing, sometimes even first. Also, in these no (or negative) flap configurations I was not able to even get close to doing short or precision landings if I wanted them to be smooth (true with three-point as well); I had to carry a bit of power and/or speed to be able to ease it on, and that made for extended landings (up to 1500’ in some cases, threshhold to stop). The goal is to be able to do smooth, short landings with a predictable touchdown point, in any configuration, three-point or wheelie. I know more practice is a big part of the answer, but I also feel like I am missing something on the technique for these 0 and -7 landings; what is it?

Pleas note that I am not looking to reopen a long debate about the relative merits of three-point vs. wheel landings. I do both, like both, and respect that opinions vary on this. Just looking for pointers on how to do each properly, under the conditions described above.

Thanks
Andy

[Kirk]

Sounds like your technique is on. Less flap equals higher speed and higher angle of attack to maintain lift. Most of us are used to airplanes that would be better served by less flap and higher speed in a crosswind. The Maule is not really that way from what I've seen.

Exploring all of the flight envelope is certainly a good thing and will get you to know your airplane better. I don't find much use in zero flap landings, but still do it now and then just to have the feel. -7 landings, I think, really are only useful to prepare you for a flap malfunction.

As you've found, a problem getting the flaps down means much more runway!

Kirk

[andy]

I find it easier to do a wheel landing with 24 degrees of flaps, normal approach angle, final approach speed of 70 mph and a tail-low attitude. Timing the flare is trickier than coming in with a level attitude, but the landing roll is much shorter than coming in level at 80 mph with no flaps and a shallow approach angle.

[aero101]

Touch down speeds way higher with no flaps, but wheel landings same procedure? Tail almost to 3 point attitude, then just as you touch roll over onto mains? I've never tried reflex flaps (-7D) for landing as see no need and speeds probably be pretty high? I've had flaps stuck from students reefing on lever without getting detent released and under normal circumstances more likely to get caught with flaps stuck down then up.... Which can make for a long flight! As far as precision landings go flaps up or flaps down, it's all about speed control for the different configurations.

[Andy Young]

Thanks; all helpful tips. One of the things I'm realizing is that perhaps with the Maule, wheel landings cannot be done flat, at least without much flap. I see lots of mention of landing tail-low, then rolling up onto the mains. I can do that just fine, but in other planes, I am used to doing wheel landings in a flat configuration, greasing the mains on, and holding that same flat deck angle until the tail drops. Maybe the Maule won't do that. Note that I am referring to "pretty" wheel landings where there is plenty of room; when doing short, off-field stuff, I am used to the tail-low, roll onto the mains procedure. Just was wondering if the Maule could do both.

Andy

[MikeW]

The short wing Maule will have a higher deck angle with flaps up than say a super cub or a Aeronca sedan that has a 36 ft wing span. Those airplanes can be slowed up quite a bit and still come in fairly flat. Wheel landing a Pacer flaps up requires keeping the speed way up as the deck angle gets quite high if you slow it down and you really have to drive the airplane on. The good thing about your experimentation is you know what kind of landing your comfortable with given a certain flap setting.

MikeW

[montana maule]

I see no reason to ever do wheel landings with -7 or O degree flaps for the reason you mentioned, landing deck angle and the excess speed required. In my M6 for spot wheelies I like to approach with full flaps, with a little power at 60 IAS. When I get to the spot I cut the power. Since the M6 is nose heavy, when I cut the power the nose drops and the wheels contact the ground in a nice flat wheelie attitude. Apply brakes with enough back pressure on the yoke to counter act the forward pitching force to stay in the flat level attitude. You should be able to get stopped in under 400 feet and a lot less with a good head wind.

My MX7-160 isn't as nose heavy and is harder to do smooth wheel landings. Also the bigger the tire the easier to wheel land. The M6 with 31" Bushwheels makes wheelies smooth and simple. In the MX7-160 with 8.00x6 tires it is hard for me to consistanly do smooth landings.

[Andy Young]

I hear ya on the -7 or 0 degree wheel landings. The only reason I played with those is to get a good sense of how the airplane behaves in all configurations; just to get to know the whole plane, if you will (as recommended by Jeremy a while back). Now that I know the full spectrum of handling, I can't see ever doing them that way, to be honest.

Andy

[Paul Amstutz]

Montana maule, how do you manage your flaps in the roll out of your full flap/60mph wheel landings? Try to get them off asap and then brake, or just brake more gently with them still on? thanks, paul, M7B

[maules.com]

Andy, that is the idea. If you are familiar with every aspect of the airplane, it can do nothing to you that you have not already experienced.
Proactive operations, not reactive operation is the key.

[montana maule]

Paul

I normally roll out tail high, light breaking so I can see those holes and rocks and try to dodge them. When and if you do drop the flaps the tail comes down instantly and then you can get on the brakes a little harder.

[a64pilot]

The reason for the excess speed / nose high wheel landing attitude of a Maule is it's lower than average wing angle of incidence. It's also why comparatively speaking it has such a high cruise speed.
One reason to do a landing with 0 flaps is at the bottom of an ILS shot to minimums, I fly the ILS at way higher than VFE, and to me it makes the most sense to just simply land than re configuring the airplane to land, because if if I go back "in", I'm already trimmed for an instrument climb and missed approach. Another is for the day when I go for the flaps and have a "limp" handle in my hand due to broke cable or who knows what else, remember I'm an old helicopter pilot, if it can happen, then it will eventually happen to me.
On edit, big tires will go a long way to make 0 flap wheel landings easier, right Wup?

[sullyvet]

All this talk about wheel landings vs three point landings have me confused. I fly an ole round tail M-4 with the O-300. I have had this Maule (sn80) since 1978 and have never found the need to do a wheel landing. I have done them just for the helluva it but I have never been in a situation where a full stall, 3-point wouldn't get the job done. I have landed on pavement and grass in as much as 25mph direct crosswinds with never a problem. I think the Maule is the most stable taildragger I have ever flown and it doesn't do anything radical before it lets you know it's gonna happen. In a crosswind, I always land on the downwind side of the runway, grass or pavement, so that I can gain a few degrees into the wind and if you do swerve in an early groundloop (I never have), you have some runway to work with.
Just my two cents worth on the subject. I have over a thousand hours in my Maule.

[sullyvet]

correction/addition to my last post. I always touch down with the upwind main gear and tailwheel first in a crosswind. Hold off the downwind main gear off til I'm sure of directional control.