towing gliders

bluemaule · Post by **bluemaule** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:55 pm

Anyone out there with glider towing experience that could give me some pointers? I have an M5210c and we are installing a hook to begin towing next month.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:17 pm

I know there was a Maule towing gliders at Arlington, WA KAWO, but have no idea who it was.

TD

Ric Rozum · Post by **Ric Rozum** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:46 pm

It may have been me that Tom saw at Arlington. My plane came with a tow hook. The guy two doors down in my building is a tow pilot at Arlington so I went up one weekend and got checked out.
I have to say that it was a really fun experience, but kind of hard on the airplane.The glider pilots want to be towed @60 mph. That will tend to overheat your engine trying to climb at such a slow speed. I was told when I bought my plane not to go slower than 80 mph on climb-out due to lack of airflow at that AOA. (Also do the SEARCH button for BANNER TOWING. You will see that someone else has been through the same thing.) If you can get the glider pilots to go for 80 mph on the string then you are good to go, but keep an eye on your temps.
As I said before it was fun! One thing to remember is that the glider can control your airplane! Say What? He has ahold of your tail. They usually wont mess with your altitude, but they will turn you if they so desire. Its a wierd feeling ( the first time ) to have your back end come around on you. Its like losing control of your car on ice, but only in slow motion.
So if you have the chance and the pilots will agree to 80mph, it wil be another aviation accomplishment!
Enjoy!

buller · Post by **buller** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:17 am

I did some towing many years ago as well as some glider flying. So I have been on both ends of the tow rope. I own and teach out of a Maule M7 235 and will agree with the airspeed versus engine oil temp warning. About two years ago I was working with a guy from Indonesia that was replacing Huskies with a Maule for tow plane use. He said they tow gliders two at a time and thought they could tow three at a time. I'm not sure how that works. While I was checking him out in the Maule we talked at length about the engine cooling issue. To simulate a tow situation I had him takeoff and climb with reduced power and a slower climb speed (60mph). While this is not the same work load on the plane it at least gives one the idea of the change in performance. I haven't heard how it all worked out for him since he returned to Indonesia. Shock cooling the engine after the glider releases the tow rope is probably harder on the engine than the towing is. After release the tow plane descends away and to the left while the glider climbs away to the right. During the descent I kept the power and the speed up until short final back to the field. This helped keep the temps from dropping too fast. Since you got checked out to tow you probably covered this operating technique and all the signals between the tow plane and the glider. A JPI Engine Monitor would be nice to have to check out how your temp control is working out. I have one and it has a feature that warns you when the cylinder temps are cooling a rate that is faster that desired. Good luck and have fun.
Paul B.

Bob Leve · Post by **Bob Leve** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:32 pm

I fly my Maule and a Ventus 2a glider and there should be no need to tow any glider as slow as 60 MPH. We use old Army L-19's and I am typically towed at 70 K. Unless they are towing historic gliders there is no problem towing even a 2-33 at 70K. Hell, I don't carer about the tow speed, I care about taking me to a good thermal. Talk to your glider friends

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:42 am

Bob Leve wrote:I fly my Maule and a Ventus 2a glider and there should be no need to tow any glider as slow as 60 MPH. We use old Army L-19's and I am typically towed at 70 K. Unless they are towing historic gliders there is no problem towing even a 2-33 at 70K. Hell, I don't carer about the tow speed, I care about taking me to a good thermal. Talk to your glider friends

I agree with above and there is a guy in Florida that's been towing gliders for years with MX7-180 and I think he now even uses an MX7-160. Both are running FP props which have been changed to McCauley Climb props. A 235 should handle it no problem, although I would recommend a good Cyl Head Temp indicator as original factory indicator not very accurate....

flyseneca · Post by **flyseneca** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:50 am

The CAP purchased 15 MT7-235s from Maule in the early 2000s to tow gliders. They make a good tow plane--although not as good as the Piper Pawnee or Cessna C-305 (L-19) due to their shorter wing. CAP sold off many of the 235s, but retains 4 for tow operations. Oil temperature can be a problem, and Maule retrofitted their seaplane cooling shroud to the CAP fleet with little effect. The fleet was then equipped with JPI digital sensors and it was found that the problem was mostly in the inexpensive OEM analog gauges.

Have to be very careful not to shock cool the motor on the way down--but towing is a great way to have fun and get an awful lot of takeoffs and landings.

Fly Safe--
Skip Guimond

Littlewheelinback · Post by **Littlewheelinback** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:12 pm

Glider towing is a hazardous operation. Do some real study on the subject. Make sure that the club or operation you tow for has real and effective procedures in effect and enforces them. Make sure you know the procedures and follow them. Complain immediately and vocally when a glider pilot doesn't follow the rules. Don't be taken advantage of. Take breaks when you need them (glider pilots will want you to fly non-stop all day).

Big killers:

1) glider pilot gets above tow plane and doesn't release

2) traffic conflicts with gliders

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:35 pm

I have always been on the back end of the system. but training and adherence to the rule are paramount in the whole scheme of things.. remember, you always have the "oh crap" handle available to you. dont be afraid to use it if needed.

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:09 am

I think but do not know that adapting the 260's oil cooler and inlet would help alleviate any oil cooling issues. I am not aware of what the 210 uses for a cooler and or duct, but think that all Maules use the same cooler, except the 260 get's a bigger cooler, and possibly a better air inlet to the cooler?

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:18 pm

Another option I've seen is adding a second oil cooler with a bypass valve for normal flight. This would have to be done on a field approval, but it's do-able as I have seen some C206's on floats with same problem and 2nd cooler rectified. Also have seen baffle mods in conjunction with the cooler on same aircraft for CHT which is where you usually develop problem as well? And as someone else has already mentioned, install good engine analizer as you may not even have a temp problem because factory installation accuracy is not very good in most cases. If you have the oil cooler that air is ducted to thru the SCAT hose, mounting the oil cooler directly to rear baffle and sealing up around periphery well will help cool oil considerably as well. There's a lot of resistance in that ducted system that can be aleviated that way, creating much more air flow thru cooler?

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