Take off and Landing in Snow

[Tomkatz]

Looking for some advice as far as landing in snow with 8.5 on a MX7-180B. At what point is the snow too deep for tires.

Thanks in advance for any input.

[m5210guy]

All depends on what type of snow .If its dry powder you could land in say 4" or 5" .If it has a crust on it 2" would be about max with those tires .If its heavy snow 2" to 3" should be OK .
The problem is you never really know what the snow is like until you land on it unless you are taking off from it first .
Never use your brakes when landing in snow because before you know it you may be upside down , wheels are not skies.
Load your plane with an aft wieght and balance to keep the tail down .
If the landing area has old tracks on it and they have had a chance to freeze , you are just asking to have an accident if you land there.

[Maule988ms]

I have landed in more than 6 inches in my mx7180. Be quick to get rid of flaps upon touchdown though. 8x6 tires and it was nice and fluffy with a three point soft field technique.

[DonMc]

I would worry about using brakes and pushing snow ahead of the tire until it formed a chock. Light fresh fallen dry snow is one thing. The older it gets and has a chance to freeze and thaw the worse it gets M5210guy pretty much summed it up. Also would worry about what was lurking beneath the snow on an unfamiliar landing site. I have landed in 4 or 5 inches of fresh snow when I first learned to fly but that was in a Tripacer.
The Tri part saved me from going over.


DonMc
N260BD

[James]

Hello,
Snow conditions can really vary. Its not worth it to flip a perfectly good Maule resulting in big $$$$, a bent prop, a required engine teardown, crank replacement, structural damage, increased insurance cost, and a 44709 re-examination from the local FAA too.

I do agree if you have to land in deep snow keep your nose up and power in. Good luck out there. My two cents.

James
Spokane
One option:
A better option:
A snow landing gone wrong November 2010

[DonMc]

Always important to have the right wrench to fit the nut.

DonMc
N260BD

[Tomkatz]

Hard packed snow looks like it works well. A nose wheel will keep you from flipping (I guess). James hit the nail with the skeeeeezzzzz. Just need mo money.

[crbnunit]

Learn from my mistake. Unless you know the field and have had foot to ground that day, don't risk it. There was a strip right under my wheels and I THOUGHT the snow was shallow. Turns out the snowmachines that gave me a ride back to the highway (30 miles or so away) were having problems with the snow that day. It's not worth it. Buy some skis.

[Lawleraero]

I've given up taking off and landing in snow on my strip without skis. I know of too many cases where it didn't work out. These were all very experienced pilots with 8.50 and bigger tires on cubs, maules, and huskys. All ended upside down!

[Tomkatz]

From all accounts "it's no go on snow" That is without ski's. Thanks all for the input. Go Puxatony Phil!

[iceman]

move to San Diego...

[Hottshot]

A nose wheel will keep you from flipping (I guess).

Bad guess... it is just as bad with nose wheel... Get skis!

[Mountain Doctor]

My MXT7 180-A and I have landed and taken off in up to 3 or so inches of powder and packed snow with powder on top (on runways) with no trouble at all FWIW.

With that said, it's all about the risk/benefit ratio. I don't push my luck with the airplane. I don't know about you all but my plane cost a lot of money, and I will likely never be able to afford another new plane for the rest of my life so I have to take care of this one.

This is something I consider every time I land or think about landing out in the local deserts, or gravel islands on the Columbia River, or anywhere off airport.

I enjoy those things and I know that's what the plane was designed for but how many times does a person need to be upside down hanging on the shoulder strap before the fun of landing in deep snow was not worth it? I'd say never is good enough for me.

Unless flying in battle, or so save a life, or some similar important mission, there is a boundary where certain risk does not pay off with a commesurate benefit. That point is different for everyone.

Just my two cents.

[Skystrider]

Tom, It looks like the answer is that it is too deep when you flip!

[aero101]

We land here on snow groomed runway all winter on wheels and skis, but also spend much time packing and grooming. Even then, if we get a big dump late in the winter, it's required to grade the hardpack back down to an inch or two, as the snow will crystalize and no longer pack tight. Little bit of powder on otherwise clean surface, no problem... My rule for the snow on wheels is if I can't inspect it by walking on it first, or a report by a knowledgable pilot on the field, I don't land there, just not worth the risk!! I do land on wheels at many lakes late in season after most of the snow is melted and you can clearly identify ice covering at least 75% and very thin rotten snow. Again you've got to be cautious of any rotten ice which you can see, if you know what you're looking for? Very easy to error in any of these conditions and not worth wrecking an airplane just to land somewhere. The TW airplane tail will flip very easily or even a nose dragger will rip the nose gear off firewall and bottom line, both will end up on their backs and not be cheap fixes!!