Gusty cross-wind landings

[Bob Leve]

I need advice from more experienced Maule pilots. After a practice GPS approach in VFR to Westfield MA I was landing in a 40-45 degree cross wind with tower reporting 15 K, gusting 25 K. On approach I had to hold a 15-20 degree crab to stay on the approach course. I put the M-5 down nicely in a three point landing, left wheel first with 20 degrees flaps on a 150" wide paved runway. After a few seconds of running straight on the runway, both main wheels and tailwheel on the ground, a gust lifted the ship off. I put the yoke forward which lifted the tailwheel and we immediately weathercocked about 45 degrees into the wind (from the left). After some 3-5 seconds hesitation I pulled the yoke back putting the tailwheel on the ground and was able to get us straightened out before running off the side of the runway using rudder and brake. Needless to say the fiasco did get my attention and a bit more than that.

My question is what should one do in that circumstance when a gust lifts the ship off the ground? If I put the yoke forward I lift the tailwheel and lose directional control as the wind will take the tail and move it into the wind. If I keep the yoke back I am in the air where I don't want to be.

Any and all advice and opinions are desired and thanks.

[N5ue]

I would add a touch of power to help straighten things out. I would also want to get the tailwheel back on the runway.

SB

[MikeW]

Well first off, 25 knots is a lot of cross wind for a Maule. When things really go south the FAA starts asking, "Why did you decide to fly today?" And then you get to go have a "special meeting" with a Fed and he will then want you to walk him through how you make your go/no go decision and what is the demonstrated crosswind component of your airplane etc.....

That being said, I have found that if your landing in a three-point attitude in gusty conditions, as soon as you touch dump all your flaps, keep your ailerons fully into the wind and come up on the brakes with yoke full back. Be ready with some brake on the downwind side to prevent weather vaning. Once your flaps are up you shouldn't become airborne again unless you were really fast on your approach speed. Also, if you have a big wide runway, look to angle your landing into the wind as much as you can.

Hope this helps

Mike W.

[Littlewheelinback]

I think there are only two good ways to get down in really gusty xwind conditions. The way many pilots do it is to wheel land at an airspeed that is greater than normal (there is a formula, I think it is to increase the landing speed by one half the gust factor ie: 10kt gust=5kt increase). If you have adequate aileron into the wind and you give forward pressure on the elevator enough to create negative lift, you shouldn't become airborne again. Keep the tail high and let your speed decrease until you are sure the aircraft won't fly, then bring the tail down and give full aft elevator so you have directional control as the rudder becomes ineffective. Brake to a stop. Sounds great... it has usually worked for me.

The other way is not text book but was shown to me by an old Great Lakes pilot in a brutal gusty xwind. I use it when I feel that conditions are such that I think I might not should have been flying. Get the plane slow on short final. Be very quick with throttle to control decent rate in the gusts. Angle into the wind across the runway if you can (cheat the wind in every way possible) Full stall the plane into a three point landing at as slow a speed as possible that allows control (work that throttle to control decent). Chop throttle. Full aft rudder to pin the tail down. Immediately get on the brakes and get it stopped. Don't worry about pretty. Use the rudder to prevent side loads/ground loop, but don't worry too much about centerline (unless you have no room and if you have no room in these conditions maybe you should go somewhere else) Even if you have trouble with control on roll out you should be so slow that you should be stopped before anything too bad happens.

Or go look for a favorable runway or even a field so you can land into the wind. You are in a Maule, right?

[maules.com]

Bob, I'm Adding to the other comments. and commenting on this paragraph;

"If I put the yoke forward I lift the tailwheel and lose directional control as the wind will take the tail and move it into the wind. If I keep the yoke back I am in the air where I don't want to be".

Get rid of flaps at touchdown is good, however getting the tail on the ground will not stop weathervaning as the tailwheel swivels.
Sometimes the wind is so strong on the nose that you may need to hold the tail up to stop from lifting off.

If you have a 15-25 knot wind from 45 degrees, and a 150' wide runway you can easily visualize your landing track to eliminate 30 deg or more of the wind angle. With the later torque tube flaps, I would approach with 48degree flap flying parralel to the runway on downwind side until I am 45 degrees across from a taxi exit if there was one but even without, I would then land on downwind edge of runway, immediately prior to touching run flaphandle to the floor for negative 7 deg, firm braking and you would not fully cross the runway. With flaps up the wind will help hold tail down and it will need over 50 knots to lift the plane off.
This method allows you to use the wind to your advantage.

[a64pilot]

Personally, I won't three point in a strong cross wind, if caught out flying when I shouldn't be, I wheel land with one notch of flaps max, strong wind, long runway, 0 flap. If I'm still moving fast enough to be blown back into the air, then I'm flying and if flying, I can go around with power, if nothing else power will move enough air across the rudder to make it effective again.
My Maule is not a good cross wind airplane, My little Cessna 140 will handle a stronger cross wind than my Maule, and the limiting factor on a Thrush is wing tip ground clearance, but on days with strong gusty cross winds, the Maule is best left in the hanger. The Maule does many things well, but no airplane does everything well, they all have weaknesses, one of Maule's is cross winds.
Just my opinion.

[montana maule]

Bob

Littlewheelinback and Jeremy have explained some techniques that work well. I do instruction in windy conditions like you explained. The biggest mistake I see is people seem to relax after getting the airplane on the ground. The adage "Fly the airplane untill you are tied down" is even more important in windy conditions. Those gusts will make things happen unexpectedly and quickly. If you don't keep appropriate and full control inputs a wing or tail can raise up and flip you over. Another problem is to approaching too fast. As the airplane floats along in ground effect the wind has longer to work weather vaining or drifting the aircraft. Then if you try to force it down you'll get to bouncing and have even more problems. Try to get from flying to controlled taxi as quick as you can. Reduce flaps, appropriate breaking, and put weight on the tailwheel for steering control. Don't jamb the tailwheel down or you will start crow hopping. Basically the wind calls for more precise airspeed and control inputs and quick and appropriate reactions. Practice, practice, practice.


In high wind conditions ( 30+ kts.) I land as straight as I can into the wind. That may be across a runway, on a taxi way, a ramp, a grassey infield,or a farmers field. After you are on the ground you may have another problem. I find it almost impossible to taxi a Maule in a 35 kt 90 degree cross wind. I plan my landings so I taxi straight ahead to a tie down or land directly up wind. Then I make a quick 180 turn if able and taxi back with a direct tailwind or stop, shut down and push it straight back while the nose is still pointed into the wind. There are times the best option is to land, stay where you are and hopefully get some help with wing walkers or pull a truck up to block the wind and tie down to it. Every situation is different and every solution has it's own risks.

www.montanabyair.com

[aero101]

15K gusting to 25K from a 45 is really only 7K gusting to 12K down the runway with WCA applied, which is certainly doable in the Maule. I agree with the school that uses the 3 point landing, throttle to control sink, get as slow as safely possible, nail the tailwheel after it touches, and get the flaps out immediately... If you get on short final and don't like what you see, do a go around and try it again. I suggest to students to assume every landing is to be a go around and be prepared for it. Also if the runway is 150' wide, use some of that width during the actual touch down to slow your groundspeed even more. If I had a direct crosswind with those kind of gusts, I'd either find another more favorable runway, or ask the tower for use of a taxiway into the wind which is done fairly routinely up here when the winds catch you outside the limits of aircraft. Landing directly into that kind of wind, you only need a very short landing area if pointed directly into it... And remember you're not done flying the airplane until it's tied down!!

[LT4247]

Well, I read all the posts and they covered it pretty well so not much to add. If it lifts a little with the wheel full back it won't fly long if you weren't too fast to start with....use a little power if need be. You can't force it down. Only bad things can happen. As the others said, dumping the flaps before this happens helps.

Good luck with it and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[rbowen]

Is the concensus to use flaps in crosswind landings? My POH recommends 0 degrees in gusty crosswind conditions. Or is the recommended technique to use flaps until just over touchdown, then dump them? Guess I'd rather not be reaching down for the flap handle just as I'm wrestling the airplane to touchdown.

Suggestions?

This thread is very informative!

[a64pilot]

I'm with the one notch of flaps max, no flaps if real windy crowd. Reason is flaps can affect airflow over the tail, help keep the tail in the air after landing, and will lower touchdown speed, which sounds good until you realize the rudder authority is directly relate to airflow over it. Gusty crosswinds are a gamble, and if you look at Maule accident statistics, there are a lot of ground loops, more than say there are for tailwheels in general. That's an opinion, one that I cannot back up with statistics. Just like little Cessna 140's handle crosswinds OK, but an abnormal amount of them end up on their back for some reason.
I think some of the Maule's ground loops come from people landing them like a Maule, that is the "kerplop" method. Coming in slow, tail low, three point. Great for short field, maybe not the best for crosswinds? Or maybe crosswind landings done that way require a little more skill than average?
Maybe the three point crowd usually lands in off pavement, which can be more forgiving than asphalt? I hate asphalt, wish we could land beside of the runways on the grass.

[UtahMaule]

Is the concensus to use flaps in crosswind landings? My POH recommends 0 degrees in gusty crosswind conditions. Or is the recommended technique to use flaps until just over touchdown, then dump them? Guess I'd rather not be reaching down for the flap handle just as I'm wrestling the airplane to touchdown.

Suggestions?

This thread is very informative!

IMHO you should be very comfortable manipulating the controls of your airplane, including dumping the flaps while wrestling it down in a gusty wind. If you are not, I would go practice it until it was natural, for one thing that method is going to get you in shortest (good braking) if you three point, so why not learn it.... (I wouldn't dump 'em until you touch, but that's just me)

As far as flaps deployed in a wind, I have never used less than one notch. The purpose is to keep enough air going over your control surfaces to combat the gusts and maintain control, I like as much flaps as still allows control, some times 3, 2, or 1 notch. I like to land as slow as possible and then roll up on my mains to kill lift and drive it to a stop. But I have landed and dumped flaps a lot too and find it very useful sometimes.

If you three point in a gusty wind with flaps and do not dump them asap you are like a leaf waiting to blown away. Dump em or roll it up and kill lift with you attitude, but don't just wait to be blown away.

[andy]

I use one notch (24 degrees) for crosswind landings unless it's really strong, in which case I use 0 degrees. I don't like to mess with the flaps near touchdown for two reasons. Reaching down to grab the flap lever is a distraction when you're trying to control the airplane in a gusty crosswind. Dumping flaps dramatically alters lift and the airplane will usually drop abruptly. If you're close to the ground, you may hit and bounce, which makes you more vulnerable to the crosswind due to lost airspeed. I like my approaches to be as stable as possible since it's enough work to deal with getting the upwind wheel onto the runway and staying in control.

[Skeletool]

Is the M4 any better at crosswind landings than the others, due to the different empenage?

[Bob Leve]

Thanks to all of you for your advice and I learned some ideas that were new and stuff I wouldn't have thought of. Basically, here's what I learned:
1. Dump the flaps as soon as I'm on the ground. I haven't been doing that real quick so I will practice doing it by feel so I still see the runway.
2. Get the controls into the wind soon as I'm on the ground as flipping over ruins any landing
3. Try to land on grass which is not easy to find here in the Northeast
4. I need to practice controlling descent with power in the gusts
5. Ask tower for a taxiway landing if it is into the wind
6. On a wide runway land on the downwind side as Jeremy says so I can angle at an acute angle across it and be more into the wind
7. Don't go flying in windy conditions that are beyond my and the M-5's crosswind ability
8. When on an instrument approach don't just be stupid and land on the designated instrument runway when all the other A/C were using 33 (right into the wind). I should have done a circle to land on 33. So I did a dumb move, but it did get me to write this post and learn lots.

To finish my little story I was supposed to return that day to my home field 4B9 which has a 50' wide 2100' runway, an even worse crosswind component, and the wind was still increasing. Luckily, I decided not to do that as it was not worth the possibility of dinging the ship at a real problematic A/P. Since I needed to replace the headliner and had received that from Maule, I looked around and found that KBAF had a well recommended A/C interior place so my ship is with them having that installed. When they finish I'll fly it back to 4B9 on a less gusty crosswind day and then practice, practice, practice.BTW My old Army H-34 was much easier to land in any wind, but I do so love that Maule.