I'm a strong auto fuel believer for low compression engin

[StinsonRider]

Hi all,

I'm a strong auto fuel believer for low compression engine.

http://www.e0pc.com/index.php

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

First at all, it is more environmental friendly.

Second it has more BTU's ( Premium app. 5%) than 100LL.

I have used auto fuel app. 400Hr's out of 600HR's in my Stinson 108
with 165 Franklin.
My fuel consumption wend down from 10Gal/ HR @ 75% to app.
9.5Gal/HR @ 75%
The Franklin 165 is running better with Auto fuel to.....nice leaning out to 1450 F
How ever, the Franklin was designed in the 40' for 80 Octane non leaded fuel...

How is the group thinking about auto fuel for the O-180 and O-235 with B4B5 engine?

How is the group thinking about diesel fuel .......I think that a 2-stroke diesel like the DeltaHawk 180 is the right approach due to the high energie density (every stroke is a power stroke)
and less mechanical "stuff " . (-;
I do not like the V engine layout of the DeltaHawk engine.....flat - boxer motor is the better design....due to better mass balance.

By the way a good diesel engine design like the 170HP TDI engine will us
30% less energie than a gas engine with the same HP.

http://www.deltahawkengines.com/

StinsonKlaus......soon MauleKlaus (-;

[a64pilot]

My little C-85 loves it. It's not an option for my Maule though. Alcohol free is hard to find, but I still haven't heard of a single accident due to alcohol containing auto fuel in an airplane, and I know of several people that do not check for it.
Mogas will not store well though, if you put it in your airplane, do not let it sit in there for long.

[StinsonRider]

The problem is the rubber hose, the tank sealer material and the floater.
The engine do not care.....in fact the engine runs a bid cooler.
Note that E90 has less BTU's your fuel burn will go up und
your take off power is less !
How ever, you right the "shelf live" is less than 100LL.
There are a few "keep it frech" things on the market.....not FAA....so far I know.
Klaus

[montana maule]

I had my O540 B4B5 ( a low compression engine) overhauled a few years back. After about 40 hours I started blending in auto fuel 50/50. In less than a hundered hours I had to remove two cylinders because of burnt valves. The overhauler said the problem was the auto fuel.

So what do you think?

[210TC]

Your engine man is WRONG. Auto fuel will not cause a burnt valve PERIOD. They just did not want to pay for the incorrect/improper grinding of the valve seat, or the engine was ran to lean. You are LESS likely to burn a valve on auto gas, because less carbon deposits getting caught under the valve. I have never mixed nor do I know of anyone that does. However, this will not cause a burnt valve.

[StinsonRider]

The problem of using 100LL in low comp. engine is that the combustion
temp. is to low to totally vapourise the lead in 100LL.
( You will see always lead deposits, when using 100LL, on your two end pipes....dark brown to rich/ light brown OK / gray to lean )
How ever, the real problem is that lead will collect on the valve site and valve stem and prevent the valve to transfer the collected head to the cylinder head . This is the start of "burned " vales. Also, in Franklin 's 150 & 165 the valve can stick open due to all the lead deposit on the valve stem.

Klaus

[a64pilot]

On my C-85 the addition of Marvel Mystery oil to the fuel seems to help with the lead problem. There is a product for this, TCP? But I gave up, it must be made from unobtanium. Something about the container not being right?

[210TC]

I will try the Marvel Mystery oil on a low comp 0200. If this helps, I will spread the word.
Many, many years ago, MM oil made a kit to add the oil to the intake manifold. The kit came with a reservoir, hoses, fittings, and a glass tube. The glass tube would allow the installer to “count the drops” and MM suggested so many drops per minute depending on the engine. Don’t know if it helped, but MM said the valves would last longer???
I have always had a can around and use it mainly to lubricate air tools and a time or two in the crankcase of an engine that had sludge in it.

[aero101]

Personally I would not run auto gas in any of my aircraft!! It goes bad in very short order, it is not compatable with rubber in aircraft fuel systems, does not make the power of 100LL, (if you don't believe that, note static RPM you pull with both types of fuel on same aircraft) and finally there is no where up here that you can buy auto gas that does not have alcohol in it and otherwise meet the requirements of the STC's... Quite ofter when I bring an aircraft into hanger running auto gas, they literally stink! That smell of bad gas permeates the aircraft. I have seen tank sumps orings, and gascolater bowls where orings completely eaten away and aircraft just started weeping fuel all over the place. If this happens in the air or at a remote location, good luck! Marvel Mystery Oil is GOOD STUFF!!

[210TC]

Yes, the alcohol does create problems, not only in aircraft, but jet ski’s and snowmobiles. Older Seadoo’s need to have the fuel line replaced. My daughter’s was one of them.
We had non-alcohol fuel until this year, cannot find it now. Never had any of the other problems nor the stinky smell. If an aircraft is not being used regularly I would not let it set long with auto fuel, maybe 3 months at the longest. With the new fed rules coming about, along with some alternative fuels competing against each other, maybe fowling will become a dinosaur soon. The Europeans have already fixed the problem.

[StinsonRider]

Here is a link to " Pure gas " in your stade.....

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

MM is good stuff. Top lubrication when added in fuel.....keeps valves form
sticking (-; and when added in oil......keeps the rings from sticking.
How ever, it is not FAA approved )-;

Yes, auto fuel smells very bad when it is getting old.....it is funny , I never had this bad fuel smell in Germany........guess it is about some additives used or not used.

I'm living at 4TA0 .....I was blessed to crank my Franklin 165 and go for a ride when ever I like.....burning app. 40 Gal / week ( having fun and fly do my office to the north side of Houston )
My fuel got never old (-;
How ever, I have sold my Stinson 108 to a German Lufhansa pilot and it will sit here for 8 weeks in a hangar with 40 Gal 100LL.......before he is coming back to do his "tail dragger stuff "with a CFI (-:

I'm looking for a M7-180B...and think about to do the same. Only for long trips fill up to 76Gal total.

Klaus

[210TC]

Thanks Klaus,
One of the stations is in my path.
How long have you been in the US?

[MauleWacko]

[210TC]

I use auto in an 0200. If I do not, it fowls plugs every 5th to 10th flight. It is near TBO. However, auto fuel is safer in this application. In 210TC never have used auto. I would in a minute if I could get the high octane rating.
Whether auto fuel stinks or not, our car engines are lasting twice as long as they did when we had “Ethel.” If we had an unleaded equivalent, our aircraft engines would last much longer,
As for Diesel, I will bet any amount of money that many lost lives and crashed aircraft will come about. I have examined the fuel injection systems on these engines and they are an accident waiting to happen. They are closed, meaning the fuel goes direct to the injector and stops. An open system has a continuous flow of fuel in a loop if you may, like Cummins and Detroit Diesel. The problem will be when air enters the closed system and has no way to purge as it does in the open system by traveling back to the fuel source. Yes, when the engine is new and the injection pump is working perfectly things will be ok, but after a little wear and someone forgets to switch tanks, diesels powered aircraft will we worth nothing. Do not forget, our government produced nine cylinder diesel radials during WWII. We owned a few of them. This is only the tip of the iceberg, many more problems will come about.

[a64pilot]

I know that if your running a Pratt 1340 and you don't use Mystery oil, you will have more cylinder problems than if you do. I have seen crop dusters prone to sticking valves, that no longer have that problem when MM was being used. Same engine, same cylinders.
I don't know about our little flat motors and MM, except that it's not legal.