Landing on Tailwheel

Bob Leve · Post by **Bob Leve** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:26 am

Is it detrimental to land tailwheel first?? When I come in at 75 MPH on final and flair with full flaps (40 degrees) my better landings seem to have my Scott tailwheel hit before the mains. I am flying an M-5, 235 HP, with weight of two pilots, no vortex generators. Any advice from mechanical experts would be appreciated.

Also, I never use my rudder trim. I don't seem to need it in my usual flying by hand. Would it be useful to use in conjunction with my autopilot (which uses the rudder rather than the ailerons for bank control) to better trim the ship on autopilot.

kakkenmc · Post by **kakkenmc** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:46 am

I know from direct experience that Ray Maule uses tailwheel first technique routinely as do many others on this site. So at least you're in good company. Sorry, I'm the exact opposite of an expert.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:14 pm

In the best of all worlds all three arrive at the same time, but I have to believe everyone lands tailwheel first at some point in time.

Just be sure to keep your tailwheel air pressure up or the tire will spin and tear the valve stem. Been there, done that.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:47 pm

An eye opener with a broken tailwheel chain.

N9657 · Post by **N9657** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:44 pm

The M5 seems to want to assume a tail low attitude right after flair. If you continue to hold the mains off with up elevator it is not unusual for the tail to touch first.

belandd · Post by **belandd** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:45 pm

My M 5 210 seems to like landing mains first. When I drop the flaps then the tail comes down.

I guess it indicates that I am landing too fast.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:10 pm

Bob L, to your trim question, If you have an Stec autopilot it uses yaw (rudder) steering, and if you have a Century autopilot it uses roll (aileron) steering. Regardless of which system, trim or rig the airplane to fly hands and feet off in straight level flight, and only then can one expect the autopilot to do it's job.
The autopilot is not designed to overcome a badly rigged/trimmed airplane.

Tailwheel first landings will occur if three-pointing with the intent to touch in a full stall, however you may land a tad faster to change the angle of attack at touchdown all the way to a full tail-up wheel landing which we all should be able to accomplish.

Sam Rutherford · Post by **Sam Rutherford** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:14 am

If I 'hit' mains first, then the landing gets all exciting on me (!), so I err on the side of caution and often have the tail on first.

If you are much to far back, it can 'throw' the mains onto the ground, but even that is preferable to bouncing down the way off your mains only.

Safe flights (and landings!), Sam.

Post by **andy** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:46 am

Whether it's detrimental to land tailwheel first depends on how hard you hit the tailwheel. A high rate of descent will put more strain on the tailwheel when it hits. Hitting tailwheel first puts the wing at a higher angle of attack and closer to a stall as well as putting more weight on the tailwheel. A 3-point landing distributes the weight across 3 wheels. Maybe you want to be closer to a stall for a shorter landing but the wing will stall suddenly when it reaches the critical airspeed and angle of attack. That will happen sooner in a tail-low attitude. You don't want to be too high above the surface when that happens.

jsavage3 · Post by **jsavage3** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:36 pm

Feeling the tailwheel brush the ground a little before the mains is normal and quite comfortable in my M-5. After adding the VGs and gap-seals to my airplane is when I really noticed that I had a lot more "tail-wheel first" capability. Just keep her straight -- standard.

YELLOWMAULE · Post by **YELLOWMAULE** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:37 am

Regardless of tail first, three-point or wheel landings., I find that I always land tail low and looking over the marks in the sand or gravel, I find the tail wheel leaves its little signature most of the time if even for just a second.
I was playing around the other night with 20+mph headwinds on a gravel bar near a glacier, the wind was very steady and with full tanks, a passenger and maybe 85# of Lab and gear, I was touched down and stopped on mains only within 75' paced.
I love these things!

Bob Leve · Post by **Bob Leve** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:55 pm

Thanks for all the advice. It was helpful. I guess I can touch tailwheel first without worrying

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:23 pm

In fact Bob, with some practice, you can come in to a near landing with power and roll the tailwheel along the runway without touching the mains down. Power and ground effect will support you. An easing of the throttle will let the mains down or you can power up easing the yoke forward and take back off.

UtahMaule · Post by **UtahMaule** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:42 am

I like to drag my tailwheel only while keeping the mains off the ground like Jeremy describes. It is great practice in slow flight control and in a short wing with out vg's and the 31's it is very challenging but can be done.

I like to practice touching with what ever wheel I choose exactly where I choose and it may take a life time of practice to master and keep sharp but that never ending challenge is what makes it so fun.

SkyMaule · Post by **SkyMaule** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:44 am

I found that the elevator gap seal helped alleviate this tendancy. Bigger tires make it even better.

Landing on Tailwheel

Landing on Tailwheel

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Landing On Tailwheel

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