Landing Approach Speeds

[jsavage3]

I have owned my M5-235 for nearly a year and have since added both VGs and gap-seals -- great addition BTW! I am actively training for short field ops as I will soon be flying into a rather short runway on a regular basis. The previous posts regarding landing approach speeds all seemed to discuss non-VG and/or non-gap-sealed Maules. I am requesting any comments regarding landing approach speeds for an M5-235 with VGs and gap-seals -- with an emphasis towards short field ops please. Jeremy, request your input as well if able. Thank you in advance.[/b]

[maules.com]

The addition of gapseals and VGs don't so much change the speeds as they enhance control authority so you can still have effective control at lower speeds.
Airspeed indicaters and pitot tubes vary so much especially at lower speeds that there can easily be 5mph up or down descrepancies.
The speed your indicater shows, is a reference point for the individual aircraft, for the pilot to work around when searching the aircraft's responses to different attitudes with different forward speeds versus vertical speeds, and still having a method of arresting the sink to convert to the soft touchdown.
The arrest or conversion can be achieved with elevater directly related to amount of trim fed in and speed used, judicious use of prop driven air to make the elevater react and/or the use of attitude to re-energise lift from the wing if using a stalled approach to get down steeply.
If your flaps are not fully tweaked to perfection (in another thread) the speeds can be 10mph different, even cable tensions can make speed differences between aircraft. Two or three blade props also make a difference of drag in the approach.

[montana maule]

Jim,

As Jeremy has stated the indicated airspeed for each aircraft is going to be different. When instructing and flying in other aircraft the technique I use to find the appropriate airspeed for short field landing is how the airplane reacts in the flair.

Start with a realatively high airspeed like 75 mph on final. Fly a fairly steep stablized airspeed aproach all the way to a flair about 5 feet above the ground. Note how far you float before you touch down. Next time around slow down a bit, same type of aproach and again note how far you float. When I get to a consistent float of 100 ft. I use that as my normal approach speed. Here at 4000 msl that gives me a 400 - 500 ft landing roll. That works for most of the places I need to get into.

Slow down more than that and you will have to be more percise and aggressive in the fair with maybe a touch of power to make a smooth touch down. When I get to the point that my flair only slows the rate of desent, I get no forward float and I hit tailwheel first, I figure that is too slow. If you can get just enough lift in the flair to convert your downward motion to forward motion at the moment of touch down that's my ideal airspeed to use for short field landings.

Warning -- At the bottm end of the airspeed spectrum flairing too high or not being aggressive on elevator and power control will produce hard landings and gear damage!

Rick

[flyer]

Jim

These ideal approach and flare speeds will vary depending on your weight.
If you are at max gross, your speed should be higher than if you are empty and very light. Your stall speed changes, I think.



flyer

[jsavage3]

Thanks to all! Very good words of wisdom and I'll definitely think these things thru thoroughly as I continue on in my short field work.

Thanks again Gentlemen!

[maulepilot]

80 mph abeam the numbers with 1 notch of flaps around the turn to base. Slow to 75mph on base. (keep coordinated and make turns at 25 degrees bank plus or minus 5 degrees for wind corrections.) Turn final and drop flaps to full extension, slowing to 70mph. If you're a little high slow to 60mph and she'll drop right on to glide path, but be ready to add power to reestablish a 70mph decent when you have your glide path back. (Unless you are making a short field 50' obstacle clearance landing). Hold 70mph until about 100', then start slowing to about 60mph. Begin a round out at about 50' and be ready with the power because a Maule may start to slow dagerously if you don't have enough power in. Approach/ landing speed for all aircraft is 1.3 Vs1. Check the book, but it should be about 52(Vs) x 1.3 = 67.3mph. That is the speed you want to be at in the flair slowing to 60mph. She won't float or bouce and you WILL be able to stop within 500' easily with light braking. Hold her off until the tailwheel touches first and a Maule will not bounce. Just a touch of power on the touch down will make it softer and easier to keep lined up with the runway, but you may increase your landing roll by 100' or so. On a steep short field use 60 on final and controle decent rate with power. Any time you get slower than 75mph be ready to add power if the airplane begins to slow too much. Start out adding 5 mph to all the approach speeds and slow down as you gain confidence in your machine and yourself. If you need to go around be ready with right rudder. Good luck and welcome to the forum. (Call 936 967 3279 if you want to talk.)

Capt. JLWade CFIIMEI/ATP

[Mr. Ed]

"G" gas on fullest tank "

While landing with the selector on the fullest main isn't a bad idea, especially if the non-fullest main may be empty, use your head with this one. Switching the fuel selector around while in the pattern and trying to watch for traffic has been proven to be a deadly endevour. A guy I know died doing just that. Switched to the fullest man as per the checklist while out doing T&G's. Every downwind he was switching tanks. Turned it off while trying to do too many things at once. It ran throughout the landing and quit at about 300' on the next takeoff. One dead, one badly injured.

I started out using 70 mph for final per suggestion of preious owner. Found that to be too fast. Now use 50 to 65 depending on weight and conditions (smooth or gusty). Would like to get slower but the comfort level isn't there yet.

What I'd like is for Jeremy to stop in next time he's flying by so I could buy some of his time to teach me the right way to fly a Maule (W52). What say you Jeremy? Or, do you ever do any instructing at the fly-in?

[maules.com]

Mr Ed
I hope to be at NW Conference Puyallup in Feb, but it's always bad WX the next known visit to WA is Arlington in July.
Any Flyin ideas for '08, maybe Soldier Meadows again to play in the desert, and I could fly with you, or maybe next trip through WA, I'll remember your phone# or airfield at least.

[Mr. Ed]

Jeremy,

Thanks. Any opportunity to get together would be grand. My schedule is not very predictable but I'll look at Feb. when the schedule comes out. I didn't make Arlington last year but hope to this year.

Mr. Ed

[RobBurson]

Denis and Jeremy, I want to go too. Please. Cheers...Rob

[Ian]

Hi

I am a 140 HR MX7-235 pilot - a true expert ha! ha! I've hardly begun to figure out exactly what this wonderful air plane is capable of! At any rate at first I would come in around 80 but soon learned I could slow dow alot more and it made a huge difference in landing where I wanted. I now try to ( as one fellow said already) come over fence around 55 mph. I have come in even slower with full flaps . Full flaps unless steep appr require careful throttle control more so then do faster approches with less flaps. I try to practice slow flight as much as possible- it is impressive how slow the plane will go with one person and 30-40 gals .

Best

Ian

[andy]

In my MX-7-180 I've found it easiest to land normally at 80 mph abeam the numbers, 70 mph base, 60 mph final. It depends on your weight and wind, though. If you need to land short and wind is not a factor, 55 mph final. Any faster than 65 on final means you will probably float more than you want with full flaps once you get into ground effect. I tried this out one day while practicing about 20 precision landings for my commercial certificate. I used full flaps and no flaps with different final approach speeds ranging from 80 mph to 55 mph. Although the wind increased to about 9 kts down the runway while I was doing this, even with no flaps the float was about 100 feet at 80 mph across the threshold. Weight was around 2000 lbs. At 55 mph and full flaps there was no float but I had to use a shot of power before touchdown to cushion the landing since the sink rate is a lot higher at that airspeed.

Andy

[jsavage3]

Since my last post on this topic in Oct 2007, I have been regularly flying into and out of an 800-foot one-way-in, one-way-out grass/dirt runway located among the hills of southern Ohio. I do not yet consider myself an expert on this. In this 235-hp M5 (short wings), 70 mph on short final seems to be working real good for this scenario. This runway is very deeply nestled among the hills with alot of valleys, hills and saddles. These variations in topography cause the wind to be less than predictable. Less than 70mph allows the wind to make things much more difficult to control. 70 mph seems to be giving me the best of both worlds -- good controlability and good STOL capability too. So, I use pitch to keep the airspeed at 70 mph and power to control glide path. A gentle burst of power in the flare gives me good results. Touchdown slightly tail-wheel first, power idle (if not already), flaps up, VERIFY THE TAIL IS DOWN FOR GOOD, then apply light-to-moderate braking. I have never used more than 400 feet of that 800-foot runway. I usually use about 300 feet for the landing.

[rbowen]

I put forward for your consideration the following short field landing technique I learned while flying L-19 Birddogs in the Army:

The Army taught pitch attitude exclusively for short-field approaches, thus later when people have asked "what speed did you use for a STOL approach?" I told them I had no idea. Here's the Army's technique, and by the way, I think it wrote the book on short-field landings.

The Army taught wings level with the horizon, and a power approach to control the touch-down point. The airplane will not stall with the lower surface level with the horizon, but it will develop a high sink rate with no power. I've found this works with an L-19, C-170, C-206 and a Maule. A power off approach was not acceptable because there was no way to get back down if you went high on the glide path.

On final, stabilize with the lower surface of the wing level with the horizon. Add or reduce power to stay on glide path. Very importantly, DO NOT pull off all the power until you've rounded out. If you do go power off, then try to round out, it likely will fall thru like a dropped sack of rocks. Reducing power in the rotation, then power off, and the airplane will land with little or no float. The Army taught the use of flaps at 40 degrees (60 degrees were available, but it took near perfect technique to land three-point without the nose dropping thru).

This technique works at all landing weights. ...and always have an easily seen go-around point that you never violate.

[Skystrider]

Bob, I am trying to understand your description of the short field landing technique. What do you mean by "A power off approach was not acceptable because there was no way to get back down if you went high on the glide path."?