Spin recovery

[Duane]

Please, do NOT attempt a intentional spin. Years ago, we were attempting to get the MXT-180 certified into the utility catagory to be more attractive to the flight schools.

After many days and many different configurations, we concluded that the Maule just wouldn't recover in a suitable number of turns. Keep in mind that this was with a professional test pilot!

[a64pilot]

still did not hear any one admit to spinning one!!!!

Get an airplane that it's OK to spin. This is me and my littler 140 a couple of years ago. Somewhere I have a video of about a ten turn spin, but I can't find it. Limiting factor on spinning a 140 is my stomach.
http://vimeo.com/9791700

[maulekid]

Please, do NOT attempt a intentional spin. Years ago, we were attempting to get the MXT-180 certified into the utility catagory to be more attractive to the flight schools.

After many days and many different configurations, we concluded that the Maule just wouldn't recover in a suitable number of turns. Keep in mind that this was with a professional test pilot!

thanks Duane, I will not even try it, years ago I asked Ray about it and he said " son any aircraft inherently hard to spin is inherently hard to recover" So i took that as a DONT DO IT and it sticks in my head.

tks

Noel

[SkyMind]

I am a 1200 hour plus multi engine pilot (250 hours + in Maule) but never had any spin experience. This past summer I was going to do some back country flying in the mountains so I decided to get some spin training.

I found a highly regarded acrobatic pilot CFI (8500 hours + flight time) who trained pilots in his two seat Pitts.

We did three stalls so I could get familiar with the plane. Half way down on the last stall the CFI took control but couldn’t recover.

I was in the front seat and as you can see in the picture I was lucky to survive—but I was not able to walk away. A rescue team had to carry me out.

Moral of the story, even with the most carefully executed flight—shit can happen.

[a64pilot]

What happened? Were you out of CG?

[crbnunit]

Glad you both survived! Hope you re walking now? Says something about the structural integrety of those little Pitts!

[Lowflybye]

Glad you both survived.

[SkyMind]

Well this seems a little bit like show and tell, but what the heck.

As I understand from the CFI, his Pitts had the characteristic that in a stall one of the wings would dramatically drop. My instruction was to keep the wings level, a “near” impossible task.

On the third stall I was able to keep the wings level, something he had never experienced in his plane (I was pumping the rudder as fast as I could) we entered into a flat stall.

The CFI was waiting for the wing drop and by the time he realized that we were falling like a rock (and took control) we had not enough altitude to recover.

All that being said, the big mistake as I see it, was that we were entering into the stalls at a little over 3000 msl this only gave us only about 20 seconds of margin. It would have been different if we entered the stalls at 5000. 3000 was the altitude where he did a lot of his acrobatic demonstration flights.

I suffered an Aviator's Astragalus (dislocated broken ankle), broken shoulder and over 100 staples in my arms from the canopy.

I am walking now, with some pain. And I still suffer from edema or poor circulation of the foot.

I fly weekly now, when the weather permits (the last several months have been miserable weather).

The front cabin collapsed to within 2 inches from my neck (the broken canopy, raged lexan, was like big sharks teeth that ripped my arms up). The NTSB had expected a fatality from the condition of the front seat.

Interesting tid bit, after the accident, the front G-meter only went up to 12.5 G’s—it was pegged out. The back G-meter registered 6.5 G’s.

The CFI only suffered a superficial laceration from the canopy, about 6 staples.

[Lowflybye]

All that being said, the big mistake as I see it, was that we were entering into the stalls at a little over 3000 msl this only gave us only about 20 seconds of margin. It would have been different if we entered the stalls at 5000. 3000 was the altitude where he did a lot of his acrobatic demonstration flights.

I read the NTSB report yesterday and was going to make that same comment, but did not want to point fingers since you were injured in the accident. Since you mentioned it, I think the CFI was pretty negligent teaching stalls at that altitude, especially if he was expecting a spin to result. Demonstration is one thing as it should be well planned and routine, but teaching in its very nature must leave room for error. The Pitts S2 loses 800 ft per rotation and you began at only 3,000 so if you let the spin develop into 2 rotations you had better recover on the 3rd or the crash would be immenant. Not much room to teach with those spin figures at that altitude.

[210TC]

Thank You, Skymind,
Your story will help some kunckle heads. One of my instructors that had NEVER been in a Maule before wanted to spin it. It did not happen.

[RobBurson]

Now you guys have really scared the shit out of me. I have never liked power on stalls in the Maule. To see that happen in a Pitts is worrisome.

The good thing about getting my M7 to stall, you have to REALLY work at it.

Glad you survived!

[210TC]

A Maule is not an S2. You are lucky to be flying a very FINE (pussy cat) stalling aircraft.
A good point(s) to be made, give yourself plenty of room for error when ever you practice, follow the manufactures advice, and accidents do happen. However, remember practicing stalls in a 150 at 3000 ft? a 150 is not an S2.
When you have to force an airplane to do something, it tells you something about its design. An S2/S1 needs no forcing to do just about anything. Our Maule have a record of G/loops by inexperinced pilots. Read the NTSB reports. I don't think you will find any stall spin or problems in that area. You will find engine outs and HARD landings. Your Blessed

[a64pilot]

Rob,
From the description, that Pitts wasn't airworthy. But, being a homebuilt, I guess the builder determines airworthiness.

[SkyMind]

The Pitts S-2B was a factory certified airplane with current annual.

[210TC]

Yep,
The S2 is a fine machine and prefered by most for training.