Ughhhh. I now have 2,019 hours on my engine and am beginning to think about the dreaded overhaul. Right now, my compressions are all good, CHTs and EGTs are where they should be and there are no known issues. The mags were replaced last year, and the engine had a top job in 2013 (at 1,000 hours) that also split the case and replaced bearings because of a corroded camshaft that spread metal everywhere. The previous owner let the plane sit for extended periods without regularly operating, or pickling the engine. I fly ~ 130 hours/year, so the plane isn't sitting around anymore, but I know there will be challenges ahead. I'd like to start building my personal knowledge-base about the overhaul process given the supply chain problems that still plague aviation. Any feedback on the following topics would be appreciated:
Turnaround time for O-360 rebuilds and recommended shops
Cost range to expect
Same for Hartzell CS Props
Any options for a prop that would eliminate the RPM restrictions that come with the Hartzell without being lighter. I already have an aft CG challenge with my MX7-180C model plane, and don't want a lighter prop to make things worse.
Any shops recommended for the work. West coast options would be the easiest for me, but I'll take any advice offered.
If I'm going to suffer the financial challenges of a rebuilt engine, are there any options to get more power while I'm at it? I'm thinking about fancy work on the O-360, not switching to a 540. I'd like to stay with 4 cylinders.
I look forward to any information you all can provide.
Por mares nunca dantes navegados - a line from a Potugese poem about exploring the unknown.
I feel like Lycon is the place to go on the west coast if you want to overhaul and massage your Lycoming, but I don't have any personal experience with their work....
If all the vital signs are good FLY IT. Why tear a good engine apart?? I went with millennial cylinders at my rebuild and sent them to lycon to have them flow matched. After getting them back and seeing how little they actually did I would not recommend that. I know they do great work but I dont think you will ever notice the difference in power, especially for the money. Good luck
Factory exchange for my O540 was estimated 6-8 months. Received it 10 months after ordering. I opted that route to get the engine updated to roller tappers, all SB & SL, other updates and single electronic ignition. No downtime during the overhaul process and price fairly competitive with the top tier overhaul shops made me go that route.
All that being said, considering the amount of work your engine had at mid time, I would really consider keeping it running. The work you described is more in depth than many field overhauls I’ve seen done to service limits. Certainly there are some knowledgeable IA or A&P that are very good with Lycoming out in the PNW. Think about having it inspected thoroughly and get a recommendation.
You've given zero reason why this motor needs to be torn down and overhauled. Unless you are seeing signs of its necessity, fly it until you do! Completely ignore any published tbo...
Maybe look up some videos by Mike Busch on YouTube about overhauls. I think he'll make some compelling arguments why you may see another thousand+ hours on your motor before needing bottom work. Maybe even go though another set of jugs before it's necessary.
If you're thinking "well it's a high time motor, and I'd feel safer with an overhauled engine instead". You'll be far from safer. The vast majority of engine mechanical failures occur within the first 100 hours of a new or overhauled engine.
LyCon does build a nice motor. Another person I am familiar with is Corona Aircraft Engines. They have built me 2 O-320 Cessna Motors that have be great. I also personally know other people that have used them with no complaints. I do not know what time frame is at the moment or what the challenges are for parts currently. I do know that Corona can do the same cylinder work like LyCon, however I have no experience with that. They are also a full-service shop if you wanted to drop your plane off there and let them do all of it Vs. just send them a motor.
Both O-320 motors were in the 21-22K range including shipping both ways. The last on that was done was a couple month prior to having parts supply issues though. There was probably another 3-4K in parts that were changed, starter, alternator rebuild, engine mounts, baffling, oil cooler overhaul.
I would put a lot more though into doing anything to that motor being as it had a lot of work done 1000 hours ago.....
I'm not rushing to have my engine rebuilt, but if there is a 10 month wait for a new engine or similar time to get a rebuild done, I don't want to wait until it is grounded either. I'd like to arrange things so that I get as much use out of my plane as possible by minimizing the downtime when the work is done. I'd like to get in a queue for the work to be done during the crappy winter season when not much flying is possible anyway. I know an overhaul is coming at some point in the not too distant future, and I'd like to minimize disruption to my flying when it happens. I'm trying to be proactive rather than reactive.
Also, at some point, I'm likely to shift to a plane with less capability than the Maule to reduce my operating costs. In the past, I needed the fabulous useful load to haul kids back and forth to college and to go camping with my wife and dog. The kids are gone now, my wife is done with sleeping on the ground and my dog never really liked flying anyway. I'm guessing I'll come out ahead if I sell the plane with a recent overhaul rather than trying to peddle it with a "run-out" engine. Lots to consider, that's why I'm gathering information now. In the meantime, I've got lots of flying plans for this season. I want to make a trip to the lost coast in California to try out Shelter Cove and maybe further south to hit Las Trancas and Monterey Bay Academy. I'm also thinking of flying to Reno for the last Air Race there. I've also got some solo airplane camping/star gazing trips planned, so I'm not giving up on this engine yet. I'm just trying to get in the best position possible for when the time actually comes.
Por mares nunca dantes navegados - a line from a Potugese poem about exploring the unknown.
The 10 months in my case was wait time for a factory reman. Kept flying until it arrived. No down time during overhaul, just planned ahead as you are trying to do. I purchased through AirPower and was very happy with them.
If you’re not keeping the airplane, the factory exchange may not be best for you since it does carry a higher cost. Maybe $4,000 higher than a good rebuild shop. That was for an O-540.
I haven’t heard anything lately on turnaround time for overhaul shops. Sounds like “most” the supply chain issues have abated but now the issue is more lack of qualified staff. I’d just call a few shops to get quotes and time estimates. Doesn’t sound like anyone on here has any recent experience on overhauls.
I don't have much to offer other than I had some cylinder work done down at Penn Yann and was really really impressed with their operation when I got a tour. Their take on cylinder port and polishing was that it really doesn't do much as soon as the engine gets some normal carbon deposits and what not. Their big thing was how well they balance all the components when the engine goes back together. All the engines get run on a dyno for a test run when they are assembled as well which was interesting to see. There was probably 10 O-360s or IO-360s for every other engine down there.
Well, I must have been psychic. My engine now has 2050.8 hours on it and it's making metal. The shards are magnetic and seem to be from the solid lifters. That's the same situation I had 1,000 hours ago when I did an extensive top job. The earlier problem also included shiny bits from the cam's hard facing. I've put over 100 hours on the plane each year - usually closer to 130 hours/year and I've changed the oil every 30 hours of tach time, or every 3 months - whichever comes first. I've used CamGuard and followed all the recommended engine care practices. The fact that I'm seeing metal in the filter again is depressing, and makes me want an electric airplane, or something that doesn't have the valve train problems that Lycoming engines are famous for. Now I'm seriously researching my options for a rebuilt power plant with options that might reduce the valve train issues in the future. DLC coatings on the tappets, or going all the way to roller tappets are two options I'm considering. Any thoughts on pros and cons of each? I already know about the cost issues, so don't bother dwelling on that aspect.
Por mares nunca dantes navegados - a line from a Potugese poem about exploring the unknown.
That is unfortunate. In my mind the questions you are asking are valid. I know people that have gone to the roller setup to try and avoid future problems. the cost is always a question. To a certain degree the cost is just part of what we have to deal with being airplane owners. In my mind it is a very long-term equation. If you keep flying the 100 hours a year, that is 10 years to mid time, 20 years to TBD.... where are you going to be at in life in 10 or 20 years.... Are you still going to flying that airplane, are you still going to be flying at all... wish I had a straight answer for you... As a Mechanic once told me, spend your money and you are going to get what you get....
Well, the new O360-C1F from LyCon is on my plane now and I'm breaking it in. The cost was painful, and far more than I had planned to spend. The cost of the rebuilt engine was just the start. Then I had to pay for shipping round trip (getting my new engine and sending my core back), a new alternator was needed because the bearings were going out on the original, the prop governor had to be rebuilt (another $1,100 with tax), and 51 hours of labor. 5 hours of labor were tied to LyCon using an older model accessory case that didn't match up with my existing baffling mounts and the oil pressure transducer had to be moved due to an interference between the engine mount and the port location on the older accessory case. Still, I have a smoother and more powerful engine (203 Hp on the dyno before breaking it in) that will last me the rest of my days as PIC. The new engine was flowed and ported, has DLC coatings on the tappets, a SureFly mag on the right side with variable timing tied to manifold pressure and weight matched internal parts. I'm busy breaking it in now and I'm very happy with the results!
old engine coming off
New engine on pallet
New engine going on
Me and the new install:
All this in time for the flying season, BRING ON THE GOOD WEATHER!
Por mares nunca dantes navegados - a line from a Potugese poem about exploring the unknown.
Well, the new O360-C1F from LyCon is on my plane now and I'm breaking it in. The cost was painful, and far more than I had planned to spend. The cost of the rebuilt engine was just the start. Then I had to pay for shipping round trip (getting my new engine and sending my core back), a new alternator was needed because the bearings were going out on the original, the prop governor had to be rebuilt (another $1,100 with tax), and 51 hours of labor. 5 hours of labor were tied to LyCon using an older model accessory case that didn't match up with my existing baffling mounts and the oil pressure transducer had to be moved due to an interference between the engine mount and the port location on the older accessory case. Still, I have a smoother and more powerful engine (203 Hp on the dyno before breaking it in) that will last me the rest of my days as PIC. The new engine was flowed and ported, has DLC coatings on the tappets, a SureFly mag on the right side with variable timing tied to manifold pressure and weight matched internal parts. I'm busy breaking it in now and I'm very happy with the results!
old engine coming off
New engine on pallet
New engine going on
Me and the new install:
All this in time for the flying season, BRING ON THE GOOD WEATHER!
Sounds great, enjoy your new engine.
Are those 203HP with the Maule muffler installed? I would love 20 extra HP on my O-360.
