Hard Starting TSIO360

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:04 pm

Anyone out there had any hard starting problems with the TSIO 360 when weather is less then 45F only? Anything warmer, it starts within two blades, but flat will not start when below 45F.... New Fuel Pump recently rigged, Gami injectors new, mag timing good, recent plugs which all look good, etc.... It doesn't even attempt to start, not a single pop like it's not getting any fuel. Have tried priming injectors until solid stream out pump overboard drain, still not a single pop. Wait for warmer temps, starts right up immediately and never a problem... Looking for new ideas as this has been going on this engine for years and it's got me baffled???

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:14 pm

This is why we name our planes after lady's CAUSE they are temperamental.
Do you have multi grade oil? Sometimes a heaver oil will hold back the speed she turns over when cold just enough to make a difference. If you got spark, fuel and o2 she should pop or do something!!!!!!!!! I would check spark....if your system closes one mag during cranking the working mag could be lacking in some way. We know you have fuel since it runs out on the ground and of course 02 cause you are still alive.
I have on more than one occasion had and ignition problem that if things were not PERFECT she would not fire. The last time this happened to me was the summer of 2007 on a trip to California in my Harmon Rocket. We made a repair at L12 and she started better than ever. Check the starting mag including the ignition switch and leads. On T engines keep the plug at minimum clearance

Lowflybye · Post by **Lowflybye** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:12 am

210TC wrote:This is why we name our planes after lady's CAUSE they are temperamental.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:35 pm

David-
Yes thought of that and mags are next for tear down, but supposedly only have 100hrs since overhaul on them.. The conti TSIO 360 uses impulse couplings on both mags, starting energizes both mags as well, and have checked that already. Thanks for the input!

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:24 pm

I thought it was a Lycoming, excuse me.

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:27 pm

An after thought?? Make sure the ignition switch has not been replaced with one for a lycoming setup.

flyer · Post by **flyer** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:37 pm

It starts great in warm weather but will not start in cold weather. It appears that you have thought of everything.

Is it possible that you are flooding it, too much fuel, in cold weather?

flyer

Maule-igan · Post by **Maule-igan** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:09 am

In the past I have always used a different starting procedure than the book calls out. My plane was very hard to start cold.
1) push everything forward and turn on the pump until you have pressure. 2) pull the throttle and the mixture out and set the throttle to 1/4.
3) The last thing I do is the crank the motor over while increasing the mixture.
When you hit the right Air/Fuel mix the motor pops off. Then I push the mixture all the way in and continue the warm up.
This all started when I was having troubles of my own with the same conditions. Kind of a band-aid but it worked. My suspicions are the my setup on the induction was too rich.
Check it out and see if it works for you. It might help you find or deduce a problem with your MIX.

jmtgt · Post by **jmtgt** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:49 am

I must be lucky. Were my IO360D Does not start as easy when the temps are cold I do not have the troubles you are. When it is warm 60 degrees and above it takes about 4 blades to start. Below 50 degrees it might take about 6 blades. When I pre-heat and get the oil temp to about 75-80 degrees it starts as if it is a warm day. I use the procedure from the Continetal manual and it has never done me wrong. I am at 4420ft and start with the mixture full and back it off after it fires up.

YELLOWMAULE · Post by **YELLOWMAULE** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:23 am

One blade at a cold start, (pre-heat below 30*) Doesn't matter if it's -15*, it's still 70* in the cowl. Hot starts were the learning curve for me. But, once figured out, it's pretty straight forward.
Full rich, boost pump on and cycle the throttle to the panel and back (about 3-4 seconds or about 8psi on the fuel flow gauge) Throttle a 1/4" or so and mixture leaned slightly. Push the button and it makes The Good noise. More boost when the temps are colder. I have an ignition switch (Left, Right, Both) and a starter button.
I would look closer to ignition with the discription of your problem. It sounds to be that you have most of the essentials 1) fuel 2)air 3) Spark (no show) These mags throw a hell of a spark. Have you ever been zapped? Certain parts of you won't show for a week! If the engine rotates, you have air. Even if you have next to no compression, it'll fart and pop. Check from your ignition switch back. If you stop and think about it, the switch is the only common denominator between two wholly independent ignition systems. All materials swell and shrink with temp flucuations.
Just a thought, next cold day, pull the leads from your switch and "hot wire" it to see what happens. (I'm not saying fly it like this.....)

Pull a lead from a plug onn each mag and watch for the blue spark. Last, disconnect the P-leads and see if that works.
Good luck. You really need to get this fixed as cold weather flying is some of the best there is!

SkyMaule · Post by **SkyMaule** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:46 am

Jim,
I have an M5-210C with the IO360. I also posted cold starting woes. re:http://maulepilots.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=574.

One of the tips I got was to use a multi grade oil. I am now using aero-shell 15-50 semi synthetic. It seems to help quite a bit. It wouldnt fire at twenty degrees the other day out at Johnson Creek, but an hour in the sun and it lit right off! It has been starting below forty with no problem.

Best of luck.

Mark

P.S.: Do you have a turbo?

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:42 pm

Gap the plugs at min. and see if that improves things. If it does, I predict finewires will help even more. If gapping them at min. doesn't help, I think it's mags.
Had anybody checked the E gap? That will do it.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:00 pm

Thanks for suggestions, though have tried most up to this point. When I say cold start I mean in the 40F range which really isn't that cold. Darn near have to flood it under warmer conditions, but does start within a couple of blades. Will be pulling off the mags here soon to see if any gremlims hiding there... Again thanks for input!!!

Hard Starting TSIO360

Hard Starting TSIO360

Who is online