Manifold/Fuel Pressure Gauge M-5 210

[edgepicker]

Well Boys, I could not help but over hear your conversation (read) on the IO360 engine rebuild. Boy do I feel like a fool. Mine the whole thing plus a VAR crank cost me $45,000.00. This was almost 2 years ago have the prices gone down that much since? The best quote I could get from an outfit in Florida was $20,000.00 using my old parts. Incidently to top off my rebuilt I had several severe problems which never effected the motor none, thanks to my AME.

Even at this big cost I never got new ( I don't know the proper name for them but I'll call them) manifold port connectors. Does anyone know where I can get new ones without costing me upwards.

But the end result, got a beautiful engine, thanks to my AME and not the rebuilders. Anyway, it seems like you got good luck with your motor as well. Have a good one.
Edgepicker

[SkyMaule]

In the middle of an M4 210C overhaul. Engine had 2400 when stripped. Thrust washers in several pieces, camshaft prop gov. end required repair also reground. New crank,cylinders/pistons, conrods, lifters plus the usual stuff. Probably around $14k on engine. Had to use Superior P.005 thrusts to get crank end float IAW specs.

g-mawl,
how did you come out on your engine costs? What else can you tell us about your overhaul process?

Mark

[SkyMaule]

Well Boys, I could not help but over hear your conversation (read) on the IO360 engine rebuild. Boy do I feel like a fool. Mine the whole thing plus a VAR crank cost me $45,000.00. This was almost 2 years ago have the prices gone down that much since? The best quote I could get from an outfit in Florida was $20,000.00 using my old parts. Incidently to top off my rebuilt I had several severe problems which never effected the motor none, thanks to my AME.

Even at this big cost I never got new ( I don't know the proper name for them but I'll call them) manifold port connectors. Does anyone know where I can get new ones without costing me upwards.

But the end result, got a beautiful engine, thanks to my AME and not the rebuilders. Anyway, it seems like you got good luck with your motor as well. Have a good one.
Edgepicker

edgepicker,
tell us more about what you got and where you got it. install prices etc. also about your decision making process. I am in the middle of this myelf. oil pump shaft failed. not pretty. infact "shit!"

[edgepicker]

The decision was long and lengthy to do the rebuild. My engine had about 1350 hours on it, at that point my AME put it on condition, which we could have run it for a long time but it did have a low cylinder (compression). But the problem arose on the take off. The Maule, to make a long story short, in my opinion is dog on floats and should be illegal with the standard equipment.

We sat on a lake one particular time for 2 days trying to take off it was hot and no wind, but the bad thing was that we felt like fools because Cessenas and other planes were taking off left and right, not to mention the beavers ( they can take off in pretty near anything).

The decision was to put a longer prop on, according to my AME it could be done. So, quick decision it was a go. Wrong!!!! In order to put a longer prop on the motor we had to put dampeners on the crank, so we were back to a go again. Wrong!!!!! There was an AD on that motor if you ever tear it down then you have to put a VAR crank in, because of the air-worthydefectiveness on that motor's crank.

So back to a go. If we were going to tear it down and put heavier crank in we might as well do a overhaul all at the same time. So then I checked out about everyplace in existance to rebuild my motor. One company out of Florida, bare essentials $20,0000.00 plus extra for the VAR crank. Another company that I decided to go with complete overhaul for $30,000.00 which grew to $45,000.00. Another decision that I dealt with Aerotec out of Nova Scotia, Canada was closer. Mind you I could have stopped it at any time he called me and told me the bad new of the extra cost but what's a fella suppose to do? Once your in your in. And if I did stop I suppose I would get a bag of parts back plus a big bill and then nobody else would touch it. So that was my decisions and that where I am.

And just to top it all off, the RPM control was the wrong one. Which on start up full blast. Thank God for my AME and his safety control. And then the oil pressure control was set wrong,and another glich which caused us days of delays.

The end result my maule is no longer a dog on floats, and we can take off with the beavers.

Here is what we got IO-360 -ACDB

Edgepicker

[SkyMaule]

The end result my maule is no longer a dog on floats, and we can take off with the beavers.

Here is what we got IO-360 -ACDB

Edgepicker

Well, you now have what you want. In a few years the pain of the cost will ease. I'm thinking of just biting the bullet and buying a new engine. I'm afraid of the hidden costs of overhauling mine.

mark

[Green Hornet]

The end result my maule is no longer a dog on floats, and we can take off with the beavers.

Here is what we got IO-360 -ACDB

Edgepicker

Well, you now have what you want. In a few years the pain of the cost will ease. I'm thinking of just biting the bullet and buying a new engine. I'm afraid of the hidden costs of overhauling mine.

mark

Hi Mark,

A little over a year ago I found metal in the oil filter. After a tear down the engine exhibited tappet valves pitted, cam shaft and lobes damaged.
I opted for a upper engine overhaul because the crank shaft and cylinders were looking very good. However I had to rebuild oil cooler, prop Gov and prop overhaul and flush. By the time the job was finished it was over 2 months. I also had the cam shaft STC'd for the centri lube

http://www.firewallforward.com/tnfwf2008b_004.htm

They also overhaul engines and warranty the work.

So the bottom line I spent @ $12,000. Of course most of the cost is labor?

This brings me to my thoughts since this experience. If you can find a reasonable A & P to uninstall / install all the related components surrounding the engine and an IA to inspect the work for sign off. Most of the cost would go to the new engine. Maybe the cost comes out the same as an overhaul depending on the labor cost but the new engine may have a longer warranty?

Don't get me wrong I don't mind paying labor cost but at least with a new engine you don't hold your breath every time you change the oil. I think your right about the hidden cost but until the tear down you won't know.
It is certainly not an easy question to answer but you can get a quote from firewall.
You could pay for the tear down and decide from there ?

In conclusion I not sure if I am any help other than sharing your dilemma of choice. Sometimes thinking out loud initiates ideas
BTW so far so good with my decision!
Good Luck
Bill

[SkyMaule]

Bill,
today, I'm leaning toward the factory reman like mauligan did. It is seven thousand less than the the factory new. With the factory reman you get to reset engine to zero. Also they give you full core credit for the crank, even though it is non var. If I went with some of the overhaul shops, they would ding me for that as well as the rods that got hot from oil starvation. They would also ding me for having the lighter case. So it looks like I'll be in the 31,000 dollar range for a factory reman delivered. 4-6 weeks for delivery and a couple to put it in I suppose.

Hey Mauligan, if your out there, did you buy a new air filter?

Mark

[a64pilot]

If you can't overhaul it yourself, go with the factory zero timed engine. The warranty is much better, resale is better, and you will be better off.
The only thing required by FAR to overhaul an engine is to disassemble, clean, inspect and reassemble. Quality varies greatly from one shop to the next. Even doing it yourself, if it's done right is way more expensive than you might think. Oh and expect at least three months to get everything back and together as well if you do it yourself.
Trust me, I know.

[edgepicker]

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:57 am Post subject:

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Thanks everybody for your input, in to my paint chipping headache. I would much appreciate anymore information anybody has on the subject. My plan is in May to chip off what I can and use the paint remover to finish the rest and some I won't even do at all just sand down like Ian said. Incidentally, I'm working in the open air, lots of ventilation for the toxic fumes.

Does anybody know where I can get a gas cap or what type that would fit and I could modify it.

This happened to me, we were deep bush flying no services in Northwest Territories, Canada. We stopped for fuel, the guy attending the place was in a hurry, so we paid him for the fuel and he left us on our own, we put the fuel in the plane with jerry cans. My pilot dropped the cap in the pond we fished for 4 hours, no luck, conclusion was widdle out a wooden stopper. so I did and a pretty good one I might add. The plan was, which we did drain the left tank first because we might had run into a little rain later on and we don't want none of that sucking up. We drained the left tank and we were on to the right tank we had calculated that to reach our destination we would have about 45 minutes of fuel to spare. After a while I watching the fuel gage and so was the pilot and we weren't saying anything to each other, it seemed like the left tank had a little fuel in it and the right tank was dangerously low according to the gauge, but we had measured it with a stick on the last stop and were positive no fuel shortage.

Then, there was a little hiccup in the motor which really gave me a heart jump, and then maybe 30 seconds later the motor quit and the nose dropped. The pilot quick switch tanks, she picked up and quick started with the wind rotation of the prop. We landed 5 minutes later on a lake and both out and checking the fuel with a stick, sure enough the right tank was dry, left tank had regained its fuel. Of course, we know the reason because the tank I put the cap on was too tight and the fuel transferred itself from one tank to the other. So we haven't flown her since and I'm in a bad need of a proper fuel cap.

Edgepicker

[a64pilot]

The proper factory cap is cheap and legal, but in a pinch, I believe it is a modified commercially available (auto parts store) cap. I'm pretty sure the lip is cut down or the cap will hit the tank closeout skin.
Just order a couple from the factory and have them shipped overnight is what I would do.
Oh, and I wouldn't put any kind of paint remover on my fabric, I would think paint remover could cause more problems than it might cure.

[Roy]

edgepicker, I'm not sure what model Maule you have. But from reading your post it looks like you have the Cont. 210 engine. On the M4 - 210 models the transfer of fuel from right tank to left tank is by design. The fuel pump for the 210 delivers more fuel to the fuel system than the 210 burns. That excess fuel is pumped back into the left tank. So if you run the left nearly dry and switch to right and empty the right you will have dumped a lot of excess fuel back into the left. Switching back to the left will usually give you some more flight time.
Also why you don't want to run off the right tank with both tanks full. And of course if you have change to the new fuel selector with left, right and both then everything I just said probably doesn't matter at all.
Have a good day, Roy

[Roy]

Edge, take my last post with a grain of salt. After posting I got to thinking. Where did I came up with that info? Then it dawned on me, the gentleman that owned and flew my Maule for 40 years before before I bought it had a rule. "Start on left tank, fly until about 1/2 empty, switch to right fly until empty, switch back to left." I got to looking and there seems to be a service letter that removed the placard that told you to fly that way along with some new tubing for the vent system. I'm sure my Maule still acts that way but I sure can't find anything in the manual to prove it. I haven't taken many long cross country flights so I remain - as usual - in a state of semi-confusion.
Sorry if I put out some bad info, but knowing me doesn't surprise me at all.
Roy

[edgepicker]

Hi Roy

My experience with juggling the fuel tanks in the past we have not had problems. The gauges were accurate ( of course you never trust gauges) and often times we would drain one tank ahead of the other and never ever had a problem with fuel transferring from one tank to the other. Often times we carried jerry cans of fuel to get to our destination so you can see how we are dealing with fuel on these long trips and not services where we are. When I talked to my AME about this he confirmed shutting off the air supply in one tank will cause this. He has a Stinson and apparently I got the impression that his plane does that without being and having the cap sealed off with no air vent.

Do you have any experience with fabric?

Have a good one.
Edgepicker

[Roy]

OK, thanks for the info Edgepicker, I don't know what's going on with my fuel transfer or maybe nothing, most of the trips we take in the Maule don't require much tank swapping.
I'm covering my 3rd Cub now, and have done a good bit of repair work on different planes, no experience with Razorback that's on my M4. I'm certainly not an expert on fabric, however there are guys on this site that are experts and they can probably answer your questions.
Thanks again, Roy

[Maule-igan]

Hey I went with PROAERO to buy my engine. These guys have a great reputation with their Exp division and I had the easiest time giving them my money. They were easy to work with, they delivered when they said they would and they gave me 90 days to return the core. I was able to upgrade to the heavier duty crank and they did not care what condition my engine was in. They did have some stipulation as to what they wanted returned with the core but no big deal. for the most part they want the block and injection. Things that they no longer build. They are just the middle man but using them I got an excellent break on shipping from them and you are buying from out of the country and tax is different. They place the order to Continental and have it shipped straight to you. The list price is the same as if you did it yourself. All in all I am very pleased and would recommend them to anybody. I listed their website below.
http://www.proaeroengines.com/