800' strip - Maule/Cessna 180/Stinson?

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:21 pm

I use my M4 IO 360 Maule for a lot of strips under 1000 ft and have no propblems... in the back country of san diego and arizona but then that is sea level country... in Idaho i have very few problems getting in and out of strips in the 1000 to 1500 ft range with room to spare but i would think that with a heavy load it would get a bit dicier... in any case check barnstormers and trade a plane and you will see a "plethora" ....."Jeffe do you know what a plethora is" of 180 HP Maules... there's a reason for that.... horsepower is king...

gbarrier · Post by **gbarrier** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:38 pm

Prop-Guard is still listed on their webite. As long as in good condition it will protect your prop. It is a little hard to remove and it does wear out and should be changed. If you fly off of grass or dirt I would guess one should change it every couple hundred hours. If you change it before it wears completely out it is much easier to do. Years ago before there was a legal way to tape the props we were using the 3M tape on Navajo props. We applied it without the adhesion promoter and peeled it off and replaced it when it showed any deterioration. Worked great. Might be the best way.

Post by **andy** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:06 am

On an 800' strip with a high elevation, I'd go with a Maule M-7-260. You could do it with a 180 HP engine but not fully loaded on a hot day. Cessna 180 and 185 are great airplanes for hauling heavy loads with good performance but they're heavier than the Maules when fully loaded and land longer because of it. My rule on runway length is having a strip long enough to abort a takeoff and stop safely before the end. A lightly loaded aircraft that can take off in 500 feet and land in 500 feet needs a 1,000 foot strip for a safety factor. Yes, you can takeoff or land in less than that, but think about the situation where you've accelerated to lift-off speed half way down the strip and you're not in the air yet or only a few feet off the ground and barely climbing. Can you stop in the remainder without running into the 60 foot trees at the end?

Jimbabwe · Post by **Jimbabwe** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:15 am

I've seen that plethora. Nosewheels, too. There's a reason.

Unfortunately, I think an M7-260 will be out of my price range.

MauleWacko · Post by **MauleWacko** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:41 am

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:42 am

I agree with you Jim, and would also like to emphatically state that the 180HP long winged Maule performance, with minimal modifications will certainly operate out of this kind of strip, no problem. The 180HP is terribly underestimated in general on this site, but if kept light, with a decent performing propeller, an increased AOA with extended gear or big tires will do some things that the 235 won't, given equal piloting skills!! At gross weights, all the maules could be problematic unless piloting skills are excellent and he is very proficient.. Bottom line is that in/out of this strip should probably be kept to fairly light loads, and if you have heavier loads, should have a longer runway available somewhere close where you could simply ferry too, load up, and go.

Jimbabwe · Post by **Jimbabwe** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:52 am

Wacko and aero, thanks. You both are right. However, I don't want to have to plan to always stay light, therefore making the 180HP not really what I want.

Jeremy, I had read somewhere (can't find it) that there are "cooling" issues with certain engines, maybe the IO-540? Is that also true with the B4B5?

And, what engine/prop combinations are quiet on takeoff, or conversely, which ones are noisy? (smallest list possible)

Thanks, guys.

snaproll · Post by **snaproll** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:04 pm

Interesting you mention a Cessna 170/180. A friend of mine built up a 170/180 with a fuel injected engine, electronic ignition, constant speed prop, long range tanks, etc... It's a total blast to fly. Much better flying than my M5-235. Then again, he has six figures in it, about twice what I have in my M5.

If I had unlimited funds and wanted a great backcountry airplane that could carry a load, I'd build one just like his. No strange Maule flying characteristics, nice range, good load hauling capacity, easy to get parts. What's not to love? Plus, the vertical stab looks beautiful. Did I mention he can get parts in less than four months?

Jimbabwe · Post by **Jimbabwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:21 am

Well, a Maule it will be.

235HP Lycoming it will be. Carbureted.

So, which model of O-540 and why?

Which Maule and why?

Which prop? I've been told certain prop/engine combinations are really noisy on takeoff and some are not. I need the quiet ones.

Which engine has cooling problems? It gets up to 105 degrees here.

Which engine(s) can burn auto gas?

Price has got to be under $100K.

Thanks for the advice, y'all!

Mountain Doctor · Post by **Mountain Doctor** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:55 am

Sounds like good progress.

BTW, yesterday I took off from Johnson Creek in my 180HP.

Grass was midlength, and wet. Slight downslope. DA just under 7,000' Winds calm.

Myself (165 pounds), half fuel, and about 120 pounds of gear in the plane.

465 pounds UNDER gross.

Started takeoff roll with zero flaps. Popped 24 degree flaps and simultaniously rotated at about 750+ feet. Accelerate in low ground effect another 1000-1500 feet and started to climb with about 1/3 of the runway remaining at about 500 FPM.

Real world numbers for your consideration.

The 180 will get it done, but I'd want more testosterone if I was looking for a Maule for the first time.

Jimbabwe · Post by **Jimbabwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:58 am

Thanks for those real-world numbers.

I have NO ground effect after my 800 feet. The ground drops away at a 20 degree angle at each end of the runway.

Yup. I'm gonna need more than 180 horsepower!

Mountain Doctor · Post by **Mountain Doctor** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:09 pm

The O (not IO) 235HP 540 has a Mogas STC. The only other current Mogas motor Maule uses that I am aware of is the O-360.

3 blade props tend to be quieter and offer more clearance and look cool. They may be a tad slower than 2 bladed props due to drag of extra blade. I think they provider better 'braking' on approach for the same reason. If it's worth the $ or not is a personal decision. I don't think that the performance differences in general are very big.

Mountain Doctor · Post by **Mountain Doctor** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:12 pm

Under 100K should be easy.

Maules like all airplanes have their foibles but are great values.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:24 pm

Only Auto gas STC for the Maule 235 is the O-540B series.

Finding auto gas wo/ Ethanol can be a bit of a pain in the tutu. Those who have Autogas capable engines can give you more info.

I really like my 80" three blade McCauley. When on floats I really felt the increase in thrust over the old Hartzell. I feel it is a nice all round performer. You can get into LOOOONG discussions about props.

M6 and M7's have longer wings than M4 and M5's; therefore, more lift.

I have Oleo gear and cannot comment on the spring gear. Someone with experience on both can make those points.

If you can afford to feed the 235, it is a nice choice.

TD

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:35 pm

Wow Doc!! No offense meant, but I think you'd be amazed what spending of maybe $10K - $12K in proper places would do for your performance!! No Joke! Or are you really flying a C150/C172? (JOKING!!)

800' strip - Maule/Cessna 180/Stinson?

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