Maule M5-235C on PK2300 floats

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:45 pm

I was looking at a Maule M5-235 on PK2300 floats. Has a low time carbed 0-540 and looks in decent shape from the pics. Talked to the owner a bit about weights and he is claiming 1600 lbs empty on the floats and 1000 lbs useful. I'm skeptical of these numbers so I thought I'd ask here. What do you think? Does anyone have experience with the PK2300 float on this plane and do they come with a 10% upgross like some other floats do? Thanks in advance.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:44 pm

Hmmm.

If he did the upgross then it has a GW of 2500 on wheels. Jeremy or others would have to tell you if PK gets the additional gross weight benefit as do the Aqua floats (GW 2750 on Aquas).

I looked at one of my old W&B's and I might believe 1600 on wheels, but my Empty on floats was in the 1800+ range and my useful went down about 60lbs from the wheels useful.

If the PK's are significantly lighter than the Aqua 2400's then it might work.

Ask him to shoot you a copy of the W&B sheet from the plane w/ both floats and wheels.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:28 am

Installed float weights per manufacturers
PK B2300 305 lbs
Baumann 2720 313 lbs
Aqua 2400 337 lbs
Edo 2440 340 lbs
Fiberfloat 2400 366 lbs

Oleo Landing gear removed from Maule is aprox 100 lbs thus can be calculated the useful loads.
Manufacturers float weights are optimistic usually

The M4 is a 2300 lb gwt airplane
The M5 was 2300 lb gwt until aprox 1981 then 2500 lb
On floats, the 10% gwt increase produced 2530 and 2750 lb gwt on floats
Some M5 have had the upgross kit fitted in the wing roots to change their gross weights to 2500 wheels and 2750 floats however this does not automatically mean all floats are rated for the upgross.

Call PK to see if the B2300 is rated at 2530 or 2750
Double check detail re the M5 having the upgross weight kit fitted, Many are claimed to have it but don't and some only have it fitted to one wing because of a wing change or repair.

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:26 pm

Thank you Tom and Jeremy both.
I've got some more checking to do.
Looks like PK floats has traded hands and there is no contact info at the moment.

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:14 pm

I doubt if PK 2300 can go beyond 2530 gwt but as the net gain on airplane empty weight would be approx 210 and the Maule was a light one there would be a decent useful on the floats.
The MX7-180 is certified on Wipaire 2300 at 2500gwt but they are not enough for the 235hp models.

Duane · Post by **Duane** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:41 am

I'm seeing on our approvals list that the M-5 210 and 220 are approved on the PK 2300's at 2300# and the M-5 235 on PK 2300's are at 2500#.

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:40 pm

Well there we go then.
So if the plane was kept light, and it looks like this guy hasn't really added anything, his numbers may not be too far off. Probably closer to 900 or less useful though. A bit of a difference though for sure and really I'm basing this on the 1400 lb empty weight on wheels I read somewhere. Not sure if that's realistic.
Thanks all

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:24 pm

First of all there is basically no difference or gross weight increase for the PK2300 over wheels with the gross wt kit installed. Note, you don't get the 2750LB weight. now, optimistically, 100lbs of wheel gear removed, for an decrease of 100# in the gross weight. at 1600 # empty, minus 100# for gear, plus 300 float weight (optimistic) gives you an 1800# empty for a legal useful of about 700#!!! FAR SHORT OF 1000#!! Now fill mains only, +240, Pilot, 200# and you're down to a legal 2 place, or maybe 3 place if pax's very light??? You need the Bauman's as they'll get you an extra person in acft legally!!! not PK's!!! Good luck shopping, if you're looking at just weights and useful, this is exactly why the Cessna 185 is so popular up here... It's useful load is close to equal to empty weights and on a light C185, useful can actually exceed empty wt!!! The Maule just doesn't have that ability and doesn't seem factory has any interest in getting there, probably because of limited application that maule has seen....

Another issue on M7-235 on floats is float floatation at max gross. Very little freeboard showing even with the Bauman's. PK's very similar to the Aqua 2200's, no match for the Aqua 2400's which is pretty hard float to beat for the big maule, but the Baumann's are lighter and are rated higher, but I can tell you that anything the Baumann's will carry off water, the Aqua's will also...

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:28 pm

Thanks Jim
I didn't realize the starting point was 1600 empty on wheels.
Yes 700 is a far cry from 1000.
How do you like the EDO 2440 for the M5? Or do you have any experience with that combo?

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:12 am

MattW, the best floats for the M5-235 are Aqua 2400 and Baumann 2720.
Both have nice flat decks and hatches with good size doors.
There have been upgrades on both over the years.
I have a set of Baumann for you, if you find the right airplane, which I may also have.
Because of the cap rail position on the EDO 2440 a hatch door is rather narrow and only a few of the 2440's have the expensive hatch kit and the walk deck is also narrow.

aero101 · Post by **aero101** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:22 am

Matt

Don't care too much for the EDO 2440.... They do work, but the step, center of buoyancy of floats, just not a good match with this airplane, so performance suffers accordingly. They've just never been much of a performer on anything which is reason they haven't been built since the '50's!!! I agree with Jeremy, in that the Baumann's or Aqua's are the only way to go if looking for good compromise... If you don't yet have an airplane to put them on, I'd also suggest something with the universal wing longer flaps, longer wings if you're looking at serious float flying.. Don't get me wrong, M5 will do ok on floats, just the M7 series will do better at same weights, water available, etc... And if you enjoy the water, floats are just another tool which you'll enjoy to no end!!

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:52 pm

Interesting for sure. The prices on the M7 series are a little higher than I wanted to go. One could always buy the Maule M5 with the PK 2300's and sell those to a Cessna 170 guy and pick up the Baumanns.
It's not that I'm solely focusing on the useful load, there's a lot of factors that attract me to the Maule like durability and performance but I do have a couple tasks in mind where useful load will be a consideration. I'd like to be able to take two guys (175 lbs each), two packs and rifles (my pack is usually ~55 lbs), and be able to go into some high lakes and come out with a sheep or (maybe optimistic) a deboned elk. I know DA will be a major consideration here and I'm not opposed to ferry trips to larger, lower lakes. I'd like to be able to take my 3 little kids into some lakes and maybe do an overnight or two.

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:10 pm

Just FYI, I got this from backcountrypilot.org.

PK is back in business:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/commun ... ness-17759

MattW · Post by **MattW** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:52 am

I got the weights from the owner:
1665 empty on floats
1450 empty on wheels
2530 gross weight

maules.com · Post by **maules.com** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:58 am

Matt, though the airplane appears to Not have the high gross weight kit in that case, I would still inquire of PK whether the 2300 floats are legal and can support 2530 or 2500 lbs.

Maule M5-235C on PK2300 floats

Maule M5-235C on PK2300 floats

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