M5 restoration project

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captnkirk
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Post by captnkirk »

Diesel is the way t go :D
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gbarrier
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Post by gbarrier »

If its as good as they say. Seen a lot of "want a be's" come and go. Pretty bold claims.

VA Maule
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Post by VA Maule »

That Ace is impressive! Lots high tech sounding stuff have to wonder about parts availability years down the road?.
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freedom
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Post by freedom »

I used to fly an MX7 10yrs back with 235hp and always thought of it as the perfect balanced engine for this plane. This time I'll be the one to pay for the engine and for the gasoline therefore the wallet is also playing an important role in deciding the engine.
The idea behind going experimental is that you can skip the expensive certification part of any aeronautical product, save money and make flying affordable. Therefore I don't see the point of buying a certified engine when the market is full of safe, efficient and better performer engines.

I think an M5 with let's say a range of power around 210hp, and some 100lbs lighter then a stock M5 with a 540 installed, probably has more or less the same performance, and since I won't be using it for any performance based flight I could even afford a 50ft longer takeoff run or a 100ft/m less climb rate.

On these considerations, the TitanX370 or the ACE379r seems both valid alternatives to the stock 540. Both with 4 cylinders so there's also a saving on regular maintenance compared to a 6 cylinder 540.
Buying price is quite similar. Any thoughts?

thanks

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captnkirk
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Post by captnkirk »

Freedom all valid points one of my concerns is the avgas availability issue. The multi fuel fadec engines seem to over come a lot of those problems , but I see diesel as the fuel that is almost universally available . If I where going to build a plane that would be one item I think I would pursue. The shop I use the owner was a missionary pilot and his stories of finding fuel in those remote areas makes me thankful I'm here in the states.
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freedom
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Post by freedom »

Captnkirk your are absolutely right, if I was doing this in the States I'd go for the diesel/jetA1 engine. My problem is that general aviation in Europe and specially in Iitaly differs a lot for the States. In my country probably only 50% of the airports offer avgas (at the same price of a nice aged wine), while they all offer jetA1 so this would apparently solve the problem, but only apparently as it will in fact make me dependent on airports for fuel. Flying into airports is another thing I will avoid as much as possible because they just rip off general aviation users with landing and security fees, while I'm planning to fly as much as possible only in private airstrip where landing fees are generally free or ridiculously low. But since diesel engines are still a minority these latter only offer mogas.

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chris erasmus
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Post by chris erasmus »

Freedom, you have problems similar to to what we have in South Africa, avgas is scarce and very expensive, this is why I fly behind the Lycoming O 540 B4B5 engine, it runs on mogas just fine, just invest in a good quality filter

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maules.com
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Post by maules.com »

STC approved mogas engines for production Maules, are the O540 B4B5 235hp at 2575rpm and the O360 C1A and C1F 180hp 2700rpm.
M5s were built with the 180 and 235 hp. among other non morass engines, Lyc 200hp, Lyc 210hp turbocharged, Franklin 220hp, Continental 210hp.
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Andy Young
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Post by Andy Young »

So the O-540-B4B5 makes 235 hp at 2575 rpm and can run on Mogas.
The IO-540-W1A5D makes 235 hp at 2400 rpm and cannot run on Mogas.

Based on that, am I correct in assuming that the W1A5D is a higher-compression engine? That's how it makes more horsepower at lower rpm out of the same displacement?

Andy

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chris erasmus
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Post by chris erasmus »

That is one part of the puzzle. The second part is the bendix fuel injection system that is not compatible with mogas

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Andy Young
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Post by Andy Young »

chris erasmus wrote:That is one part of the puzzle. The second part is the bendix fuel injection system that is not compatible with mogas
So there are no engines with Bendix fuel injection that we approved for mogas?

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chris erasmus
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Post by chris erasmus »

I am afraid not, It would appear the problem is that the system sits on top of the engine and gets hot, cooking fuel, but I stand corrected

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maules.com
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Post by maules.com »

B4B5 compression is 7.2:1
J1A5D and W1A5/D is 8.5:1
Fuel servo is only on top of Continental IO360 210hp
Fuel servo on Lycomings is under engine at front of oil pan whereas carburetor is under engine at rear of oil pan.
However the diaphragms and seals in the Bendix fuel servo may not be compatible with mogas (I don't know)
The Lyc IO540 V4A5 260hp on the Maules is 2700rpm, slightly different mag timing than 235hp and is certified to run 91 oct. I don't have my book in front of me but I think the comp ratio is 8.2:1.
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chris erasmus
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Post by chris erasmus »

You can also look at the B1B5 engine, it's a B4B5 engine with slightly higher compression, still reving 2575 for 250 hp and mogas compatible

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freedom
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Post by freedom »

according to Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1070S, which their technical department has confirmed to me, the W1A5/Dcan run on mogas.
I think the issue might then be the aircraft fuel system.

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