Avionics

[Ian]

My 85 MX7-235 has very little in the way of avionics. Terra navcom of which I use only the comm. There is a kr-21 mkr bcn and a kr86 adf. I have but have not installed a kn-53 with a new ki-209 , icom a210, new ps intercom, and a used ka-134. I have a gps 295. What I am trying to figure out is should I save and get a 430 with waas and remove adf and marker beacon--in general what do you all think , in these days of gps etc..

[Flyin'Dutch']

Ian,

Our M5-235C is similarly sparsely equipped in the avionics department.

Initially we thought we wanted to upgrade it 'properly' which over here in the UK means a 430; a second FM immune VOR; ADF; DME; a Mode S Transponder and a second altimeter.

By the time we would have finished it would have been investing a significant of the value of the Maule in the avionics alone.

So we are just going for a sensible upgrade with a 'panel mounted' 496, mode S transponder (as that is compulsory now over here) a KX155; we leave teh ADF in and keep the old Bendix King flip flop as Com2.

[Ian]

Hi

I know what you mean about cost of panel approaching cost of airplane or even going beyond. I suppose even a 430/WAAS is overkill. I do not see getting an instrument rating any time soon and even so have no intention of taking my plane into IFR conditions. Your idea of the panel mounted GPS is a good one, which is on my list of possibilitues. I am thinking that I would be in good shape to use what I have - the Icom A210, used KN-53 ,new KI-209, intercom, KA-134 etc and just fly .

Where do you fly out of in England? I visited Booker in High Wycombe back in 80 and 84 a long time ago . Lovely airport. I walked into a hangar which was filled with a Storch, Spitfire, Mosquito, something Italian , and lots of parts and an interesting large model of an HE-111 hanging from ceiling. The fellow inside said I could come in and look around take pictures it was great. Turns out the fellow who let me in was Tony Bianci of Personal Plane Services- I am going to come over soon with my 9 year old son to do the air museum rounds and visit some airports as well.
Thanks for the avionics input.

[Kirk]

Ian,

My 2 cents worth on it as follows:

SInce you don't have an IFR rating and don't intend to do any IFR, the WAAS will be a waste of money.

The 496 or 396 with the panel dock is nice, but the installation cost will be close to what installing a 430 would be for VFR or basic IFR. Find a good used 430 and install it. You would have a great comm, nav and GPS. All that for about the same installation cost as a 496 using the same old Terra.

The Terra is a pretty good radio, I have one as my standby comm. Having 2 comms, in my mind, is just about a requirement with all the TFRs that pop up, it's the only way you can monitor 121.5 and still have your primary frequency in use.

3 years back I shaved 13 lbs I think by installing a KLN-94 GPS and removing the old Loran, ADF and #2 VOR. HIndsight being 20/20 I wish I had gone for the 430 and gotten an updated comm. I

Updating avionics is one of the easiest ways to shed a few pounds from your empty weight and having trouble free comm and nav. Another plus for Garmin that can be very important is flat rate repair. I like the Bendix/King IFR equipment better for functionality, but the repair costs can be quite high. I'm keeping my fingers crossed there. Haven't needed repairs yet.

Check out Panel Planner software. It's cheap and really fun to try out different panel ideas. Just find a good shop to review your plan and make suggestions before you make up your mind.

Good luck!

Kirk

[Kirk]

Another thought for the GPS/COM would be a GNC 300 or 250 which are a lot cheaper than the 430. Moving map but no VOR/GS.

Kirk

[a64pilot]

How can a 396 and a airgizmos panel dock come anywhere near the cost of a 430?
Since your not going IFR, put a good EFB on a tablet and have a lot more than any Garmin Nav wise. doesn't help com wise of course, but goes from plane to plane and is a good home computer as well. I'm using my motion tablet right now.
I use this software. www.flightprep.com

[Wayne]

If your not going to fly IFR don't load your plane up with that extra weight just put a 396 or 496 in and its far nicer than a gns 430. If your not using some of that old junk in the panel have it taken out. Nothing flys better than a lighter plane.

[Kirk]

A64, I said the installation cost would be close to the same. Not the purchase price. The thing I like about the 430 is that you update 3 things for the price of one install. COM, VOR &GPS.

It's all personal preference of course. I am biased towards IFR cert gear since that is what I use the most. In the cas of my example, buying a used KLN-94 GPS was a good deal at $2000 plus install. What will make it a bad deal is if my KX-175B COMM needs repair. Then the extra bucks for the 430 or a GNC-300 would have been worth it.

Wayne is right about removing the unused stuff. Why have a marker beacon on a VFR aircraft. I sure wish I could get rid of the tuna boat antenna on mine.

Kirk

[210TC]

Take a look at http://www.aviationsafety.com/ 3D
This is far beyond garmin. do compare all that is out before you spend your hard earned $.
I have had many problems with garmins only have one left and soon it will be gone.

[Ian]

David

That gadget looks incredible. I will definitely look into it more. It really looks quite good- THanks

[RT]

If you don't go with garmin what is out there for an IFR GPS with WAAS?

[a64pilot]

If you don't go with garmin what is out there for an IFR GPS with WAAS?

See, that's the thing, Ian said he had no idea of ever taking his aircraft into IFR conditions, which gives lots of options. Pretty sure Bendix/ King still makes IFR GPS's, but Garmin is generally considered to be the best. Of course they got that way by buying Apollo.

[210TC]

I have had so many lost sats on the garmins I've sold them all on ebay. I don't care if they are certified. I just installed a KLN90B for my certified unit and I will have a backup (Cheetah) for saving my life if need be.
You can shut down the elctrical system, blow the vacum pump and dam near land in zero zero conditions with a Cheetah. Now it is not certified, but if you talk to people whom use them, they turn off there garmins (this is just a figure of speech).
NEVER heard of a KLN90B failure.
Now, I have a redundent system that is safer than having 2 430's with a 480 backup for under 8000.00. Can't even compare, loose the electrical and/or vacuum and 100,000 in that panel is usless.
Our planes are more likely to have this kind of falure because we rock n roll in a dirty environment.
Soon I will show you what I have done to my electrical system, It's AWSOME.

[210TC]

read this:
http://www.aviationsafety.com/testimonials.htm

[a64pilot]

My motion tablet is of course self contained power wise as well. It communicates via bluetooth to a self contained GPS the size of a small match box. The XMWX is bluetooth as well, but does not have it's own battery. The advantage of seperating the hardware from software is that there are many more options that way.
If you don't have to have certified instrumentation, then what is available is amazing. Makes experimental look much more advanced than the certified aircraft. A little backward isn't it? Of course my tablet is "temporarily" mounted to the right side of my panel, but it gives me a 14" MPD.