Newbie asks Maule vs C180 and other Q's

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:03 am

Hi, I’m new to these boards (and flying for that matter), very nice BBS with lots of good information.

I am a new pilot with 80 hrs TT, 20 hrs TW in a Citabria and I have just started on my complex rating. I have begun looking at purchasing an airplane or partnering. I am looking for a plane that can carry 4 adults or 2 adults and 200-300lbs of gear including a couple of mountain bikes. I live in northern CO along the Front Range and most of my flying will be at higher altitudes so I will need a plane that can carry the load over high passes and operate out of airstrips as high as 10k. I don’t expect to be landing on sand bars or anything like that but dirt and grass fields are likely. A C180 or Maule look like the top choices for the money and what I want to do with it, and it seems like the Maule can be had for a lower cost. I have a few questions though…

First, I’m not a small guy at 6’2” 220 lbs, some of my possible passengers add 2” and 30 lbs to that. How are the Maules for leg and shoulder room?

How easy/hard is it to load and unload passengers and gear?

What is the best model/engine for the price and what I will be using it for? An M5-180 seems to fit but how is the M5-180 engine at altitude?

How do Maules handle mogas?

How difficult is it to find an AE with some expertise in Maules?

I’ve read a lot about the insurance costs for new Maule owners/pilots. What kind of rates are Maule pilots getting after a year or two and a couple hundred incident free hours in their own Maule?

Does anyone know of a CFI with a TW Maule in northern CO? Or even someone who would show me around their airplane, let me sit in it and maybe take a ride as a passenger (I’d pay for fuel of course)?

Anybody know where I can find a Maule buyers guide?

And last, I’d love to hear from anybody who has owned or flown both a C180 and Maule. How do they compare on operating costs, maintenance costs, fun factor and anything else that matters?

Thanks!

RobBurson · Post by **RobBurson** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:18 pm

Hi Jinkers: Listen to what Jeremy has to say, he is the master! I am pretty green so take what I say with a pound of salt. I have a 2000 M7 235C B4B5 low compression engine STC for mogas. I love it. I have 160 TT 55 TTIM. Total time in Maule. I ran a tank of mogas yesterday, no problems. If you want the mogas option be sure to get a plane with the right engine. There are a whole lot of ifs, ands, and butts concerning mogas STC. All the engines won’t run mogas. You know you can’t get mogas at most airports. I can haul my own so it’s no problem. Here is Peterson’s URL. http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/ ... ation.html
The large cargo doors on the Maule will take Mt. bikes no problem. The back seats come out in 1 min, very convenient. Weight and balance will be an issue if you want to stay legal. It’s a fact they will fly over gross. Do you want to be a test pilot? If you buy a Maule, you are not allowed to have an insurance claim. My insurance is high enough. I'll do the same for you. Cheers…Rob

montana maule · Post by **montana maule** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:25 pm

I have a M-5 235 and fly with some friends that have C180 / C185s. They always point that they;
criuse faster ( they should they have more hp )
have a higher legal useful load ( almost 500 lbs. more )
I point out;
all things being equal ( equiptment, modle year, etc.) they have 40 - 80% more money invested in the purchase price
I can load bulky items with ease that they cann't get in the door
the cabin demensions are the same length and width wise ( Cessna has 6" more head room)
I land and take off in the same distance or shorter

The cost of engine maintenance is virtually the same. The Maule fuselage needs to be recovered in time but factoy new airframe parts are readily available and cheeper.

If you are going to operate at high altitudes there is nothing better than more horse power.

If you use auto fuel even with the STC it will void any warranty from Lycoming or most overhaulers. Since most warranty periods are less than two years this may not be a problem with your engine. I never have had problems with auto fuel. Also remember you can not use auto fuel with an ethenol additve. It will destroy all rubber seals and gaskets in the fuel system.

If you want an airframe less than 20 years old you have only one option.

Come to the fly-in the end of June. I'm sure you can get a ride or two and get all of your questions answered.

Rick Geiger

flyer · Post by **flyer** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:27 pm

Jinkers

It would be best if you could get a flight in a Maule and in a Cessna 180.
They are completely different planes and each has its strong and weak points.

The insurance on a Maule for a low time pilot will be quite high. I suggest you call an insurance agent and compare insurance costs on the 2 aircraft. Even for a high time pilot the cost of Maule insurance is higher than an equal value Cessna 180.

The way the insurance companys do their statistics indicate that you are more likely to have a claim, accident or whatever, with a Maule than with a Cessna 180.

The Maule will be a lot more fun to fly than the Cessna 180.

Good luck

flyer

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:45 pm

Thanks for the info!

Come to the fly-in the end of June. I'm sure you can get a ride or two and get all of your questions answered.

I'd love to but I don't have the vacation time to use

But that's what I'd really like to see is a few different Maules and to get a ride in one.

I am also interested in more on the 180 vs 235 engine size. The smaller engine would lower the purchase cost and the insurance cost as well as increase the usefull load. If it can perform well enough at altitude I think that would be the way to go.

Hottshot · Post by **Hottshot** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:23 am

Jinkers-

Haveing the 180 Maule and axcess to a 235 Maule at altitude I would recomend the 235 for what you are wanting to do (heavy load) I love the 180 Maule as it perfoms great, short field is great, fuel useage is 8gph but as it has already been said there is no replacement for displacement!!!

AK Mauler · Post by **AK Mauler** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:37 pm

I drive a MX7-180, but I operate in cold weather and sea level airports. On cold days I can easily hold 1300 fpm with myself and 43 gals. The highest I have flow is 13,000 and still had decent climb, but again it is cold up here. An 80 or 90 degree day would be quite different.

a64pilot · Post by **a64pilot** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:30 am

At the elevations and gross weights you are talking about the 235 is almost a must in my opinion. Another opinion, the 235 will live longer, it's making less power per cubic inch and turns at a lower RPM. I rebuilt my 235 at 1900 hrs or so. It was really a waste of time, that engine had very little wear and could have gone far longer than 2000 hrs.

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:23 pm

Ok, sounds like the 235 is prefered. How does the M4-220 compare to the M5-235? I know the Franklin has a lower TBO but I'm not finding a whole lot of info on reliability or performance on the Franklin? How do the M4 - M5 airframes compare?

BTW - thanks for the replies. I'm still hoping to find a cfi with a Maule in the Northern CO area.

montana maule · Post by **montana maule** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:56 pm

I have 2400 hrs in a M-4-220 and 400 hrs in a M-5 235. They are the same airframe just different tails. They have the same wing, the M-5 has a slightly longer flap and more travel. The M-5 can have a higher gross wt. 2500 vs. 2300. My M5 has about 100lbs more useful load than the 4. Over all most people wouldn't notice a significant differance in performance between the two.

The Franklin is a good engine. That being said, you don't want one. You won't be able to find parts to keep one in the air. With no new parts available the engines being "overhauled" are using substandered or marginal parts. After an in flight crankshaft failure and 3 other forced landings I decide it was time to find something more reliable.

In about a month I will be doing some instruction in a M-7 235 in the Craig CO area. I think the owner would let you ride along. Give me a call. 406-949-5709

Rick Geiger

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:27 am

Thanks for the offer Rick! I will take you up on it if I can swing it. I’m out of town on business right now but I should be home by next weekend and will give you a call. If the weather looks good Craig is a nice flight from Fort Collins, otherwise it’s not a bad drive either. The biggest problem with weather around here this time of year is the afternoon thunderstorms that form over the mountains.

210TC · Post by **210TC** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:56 pm

Jinkers,
If you are real interested in high altitude, I am thinking of selling my M5 210 TC. At 10,000 she will climb in excess of 1000fpm at full gross plus a little.
The 180/185 will not touch her at climbing or cruise (up high).
price would be in the 70's.

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:50 pm

Hi Dave,

A 210 Turbo would certainly do the trick

Unfortunately, unless I find a partner my current budget is in the 40's. From what I see looking around I may be saving for another year or two in order move up to the kind of airplane I would like

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:38 pm

Been watching this thread and had to respond to the last post by our newby. WHere in hell will you find a 180 in the 40,000 dollar bracket??? I stole my M4 for 40,000 a year ago. Good luck!

Jinkers · Post by **Jinkers** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:48 pm

I understand your comment...

See the parts about looking for partners or saving for a couple of more years to get what I am looking for.

Newbie asks Maule vs C180 and other Q's

Newbie asks Maule vs C180 and other Q's

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