CONFUSED

[a64pilot]

LOL I love this web site. You guys make me laugh. It reminds me of Eddie Murphy's move ( Coming To American) Where the old guys set in the barber shop and argue all day on who's right LOL. And to top it off one doing the - shake at all about ground-loopy dance.

Cunuli really needs to have a flyin right in the middle of the country for this gang. It would be one of the best and one with the most hot air ever!

It's all in fun, try not to things too seriously, you'll live longer
On edit, I would love a fly-in in the middle of the country. The Beaumont motel would, I think be perfect to base out of.

[210TC]

Thanks for the contact A64.
If I move forward I will provide you and anyone else who wants with the info.
I may obtain an approval to try out the larger tail (Experimental test) to see if it is worth the change. I think it is, but I could be wrong. I have two calls in to some experts for advise.

[Green Hornet]

Ok! things I learned today "Barn Doors", tires so big I can't get in and out of the airplane, it is a wheel landing if you can get the tail wheel up really quick after it touches the ground the huge tires are needed to stop prop strike I think larger rudder is a plus! Hum the ground loopy dance while landing
Laughter makes me live longer!
Beaumont motel in Beaumont , TX ?
David lives in Texas lets just all go visit him. How far is Beaumont from New Braunfels, TX

[210TC]

You do not want to do anything in Beaumont Tx, nor hear in New Braunfels. Just to flat and no puplic lands.
Now, Beaumont Califorina has everything. Banning airport BNG, this is the airport I flew out of for 15 years. And the wind generators are close by for those who would like to get banged up a little, desert exploration, Big Bear and Catalina Island which is about 45 minutes away.
What would really be nice is to plan a trip to Mexico...cool.
I think the majority wants to be in the North West and majority rules, so for now I will just keep press-in buttons.

[a64pilot]

No Beaumont Kansas SN07, it is a motel that caters very heavily to airplanes. You land at their grass strip a half mile away and taxi up the road and park at the motel. Everything in the little motel is aviation oriented. Small motel, town not even big enough to be a town actually.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/SN07
http://www.hotelbeaumontks.com/
I have not asked, but I think they would allow camping once the motel filled up. There are all kinds of airplanes that fly in there from Stearmans, Cubs, Staggerwings, you name it.
Witichita is pretty close to the middle of the country isn't it?
jeez man did you not get any last night?

[kakkenmc]

So do you wheel landers use the full range of flaps? Does anybody takeoff with no flaps at larger fields?

[Wayne]

I normally just use one notch of flaps for takeoff. But I have used 0 flaps when it was a very strong cross wind and then I'll bring the tail up and keep the mains on the ground till I get a little more speed up. Keeping the ailerons turn all the way into the cross wind side like you should.
In my case I'll use one or two notches for landing normally and if I'm landing a real short field then I'll use three (48 degree)

[Lowflybye]

Although I can wheel land almost as well as I can 3-point, I normally reserve them for the more windy crosswind days. As such I usually do not use more than the first notch of flaps to wheel land. I can do it with full flaps, but that is counter productive in windy conditions. I want to have as much authority as possible for as long as possible on windy days.

As for taking off with no flaps...I have done it on many occasions, but why leave the wheels on the asphault any longer than you have to. I use the first notch on most takeoffs and ease the flaps off once I bestablish a climb. No need to wear any more rubber off the tires than is necesary for a safe takeoff.

[a64pilot]

So do you wheel landers use the full range of flaps? Does anybody takeoff with no flaps at larger fields?

Yes, but I will take off with fitst notch of flaps. Full flap helps hold the nose down and I wheel land a little slower. I won't use more than one notch in strong or gusty crosswinds.
You can tail low wheel land almost as slow as a smooth three point. I like to tail low wheel land because it's more challenging. I always try to spot land even when there is a lot of runway, just for practice.

[Wayne]

a64pilot, That sounds and looks like a really cool place. (keaumont Kansas) If these guys want maybe the group should take a pole?

[a64pilot]

It is a nice hotel, but I don't know what if anything else there is to do around there. I would like to meet up anywhere near the middle of the country. Idaho, while beautiful, is just too far for me. I went to last years fly-in in Montana because I was on the way else where.

[210TC]

A64,
I am not going forward with the larger tail.
My (expert) contact said he knew nothing about Maules. However, he had seen test on other airplanes that had negitive effects using larger rudders.
In a conversation with Brent I learned that Maule tried a larger rudder and it offered no improvement in spin recovery. This lead me to believe the stock rudder is GOOD.
Brent said to talk to Ray and Ray said he would not change it if it was his. He went on to say the larger tail Maules will not handle the cross wind an M5 will handle. This is what Jeremy alluded to in another post. Ray said that he has landed an M5 in 39mph cross winds. Hold on to your briches.
The most exciting comment that Ray made was, Don't use your ailerons to chase the gust, use your rudder.
I told him I used all of the controls in gusty conditions.
This is something that I will try the next time I'm in some rough conditions. I'm sure it will help or he would not have mentioned it.
He also said keep the nose into the wind while using the least amount of rudder possible.

[maules.com]

The M5 30ft 10in wingspan works well with the original rudder.
The early MX7 30ft 10in span but squared tips giving more lift is ok with smaller chord rudder.
The early M6 32ft 11in span but droop tips has short ailerons and thus the short chord rudder works but could be improved..........so.....
The later M6 with square tips, more lift, longer ailerons, 32ft 11in span needed the longer chord rudder. So does the M7 and all the 1993 and later wings of 32ft 11in need the longer chord rudder.
I believe it is a balance of effective wing length and aileron size working in concert with the apropriate rudder.

[a64pilot]

I believe it is a balance of effective wing length and aileron size working in concert with the apropriate rudder.

Uh-huh, Jeremy, I think you know exactly:lol: . The larger than large so to speak rudder is not on any airplane, it was experimental. As you noted it apparently didn't work. I have spoken to someone that was close to that project. I believe at the time they were after the utility class. Anyway VG's didn't help with rudder authority, neither did a larger rudder. Gap sealing the rudder like is done on the elevator apparently took rudder authority away
As far as rudder and aileron authority on an early M-6 (Jeremy, you know I had to pop in here) There is plenty there if you know how to use it. An early model M-6, and I suspect most Maules, responds to rudder input quicker and with more authority than aileron. Most aircraft you lead with aileron and use rudder to neutralize any adverse yaw created by the ailerons. With a Maule, and a Thrush BTW, your roll rate will be more crisp and precise if you lead with rudder first. An early model M-6 will roll quite nicely, nothing like a real aerobatic aircraft of course, but how much aileron do you need? Let it get real slow, like on short final and dragging it in and a wing drops, don't count on the aileron to lift it, use rudder. But weren't you taught to recover all stalls with rudder, not aileron? VG's help with the slow speed aileron effectiveness and I suspect that if they had been available back in the day, there would have been nothing to "fix" on the early model M-6. Now the one admission that I have to make is that I have not flown floats. Floats probably change the whole equation.
Basically, you can only use as much rudder as you have aileron to keep the wings level and as much aileron as you have rudder to keep it in trim. Whichever one hits the limit stops first determines the amount the other one can be deflected.
My personal belief is that my early model M-6 could benefit from a larger rudder, and who has too much aileron authority? But, for me it's not worth the expense to fix something that is not really broken and mostly, I don't want to lose those LoPresti droop tips. Those were designed and manufactured by LoPresti speed merchants weren't they?[/b]

[210TC]

Note:
The difference in the two rudders is 1" (one inch) from top to bottom x the height of about 5ft.
1"x60"= 60 square inches larger.
This is only to give everybody an idea of difference in the two rudders.