New guy investigating a dream...

[a64pilot]

No, what I meant is if you can buy it as opposed to finance it, then you don't have to carry hull insurance. Yes it's a risk of course, but statistically the insurance companies have to charge more than they pay out, or they don't stay in business long. I don't carry insurance on my Maule. I figure if I break it, I have to fix it, life is tough. I have seen people lose their aircraft by saving a little money by underinsuring their aircraft. In other words if you insure it for 30,000, but it's worth 50,000 and you have an accident that costs 5,000 to repair, the insurance company has the right to write you a check for the insured value and take your airplane. I have seen exactly that happen. There does NOT have to be damage in excess of the insured amount. Airplane insurance is NOT like home or auto insurance.
I stupidly thought that a few thousand hours flying Apaches doing running landings and takeoffs would help me in an airplane transition. Honestly a helicopter pilot can fly an airplane with little or no instruction can't they? But it didn't help, in fact I think it actually hurt, or maybe I'm a slow learner as I got older? Either way a tail rotor is far more powerful than a rudder and it's effectiveness doesn't go away with airspeed, in fact a tail rotor gets more effective at lower airspeeds, while a rudder gets less effective, I had some un-learning to do.
I have no idea if you could fit in a 140, but I have an instructor friend who is at least 6"5" and probably at least 300lbs who fits in mine, just barely. I bought the 140 for my kids to learn to fly as they are about the best flying airplane I have ever flown, but I find myself flying it more than I do the Maule, largely because it burns less than 5 gl. and hour of car gas. It is in NO way any kind of bush plane even if people have used them that way, but it has very honest handling qualities, and as you said they can be had for less than 20K, I paid 13 for mine, but it needed a lot of work.
One way maybe is to get yourself in a financial situation to where when that dream Maule comes along and someone has to sell it quick, you can buy it, but build time in a cheap little airplane and help your insurance costs in the mean time.
If you buy a little 140 or 120 right, you can always sell it for what you paid for it.
A few years ago anyway, anything that was LSA legal, costs way more than they were worth, the little Cessna's aren't LSA legal, and they went from being way more expensive than the Tcarts etc, that are LSA legal to not bringing as much money overnight.

[steve]

64 pilot you keep telling him to go buy a 120 or a140 yes that will help build tailwheel time but it really doesn't fly like a maule in the eyes of the insurance companys mind, He is also a very competent helicoptor pilot he has the skills to fly a Maule you just need the time. Try to buy without financing and self insure for a bit. I have 1200+ hrs in M4, M5, and now my M7-235c without a problem and he is probaly twice the pilot I am.

[andy]

The fastest way to meet the insurance companies' requirement is to get flight instruction in a Maule. Non-Maule tailwheel time counts but you'll still need make/model time before they'll insure you. It's not easy to find a Maule and qualified instructor anywhere close by but this forum is the place to check. You may have already seen some threads on Maule instructors.

[Kansas Slim]

It's not easy to find a Maule and qualified instructor anywhere close by

Yesterday I called Maule Inc. and spoke with Rautgunde. I've got to say that I'm pretty motivated to go visit Georgia now. If only I could convince my wife that this is a great idea...

[Christine]

Hi Kansas Slim,
maybe put up a new message with topic "looking for qualified Maule instructor (w Maule) around Kansas/Missouri"
Once you decide to buy a Maule you can also have an instructor come with you to fly it back to Nevada,MO and have him/her insured and get instructions on the way and when back home.
If you are still ambivalent the route to get some instructions in a Maule is a good way to see how you like it.

BtW FYI, if you talked to Rautgunde you probably didn't take to Maule Inc but Maule Flight (different company, same airfield) Ray Maule works for Maule Air but has also his own company Maule Flight he founded while he was not working with the family
Visiting the factory is always a memorable event. Planning in some instruction at Maule Flight next door should be a good trip

It's not easy to find a Maule and qualified instructor anywhere close by

Yesterday I called Maule Inc. and spoke with Rautgunde. I've got to say that I'm pretty motivated to go visit Georgia now. If only I could convince my wife that this is a great idea...

[Mr. Ed]

Convince the wife? I spent 6 years trying to convince the wife, didn't happen so I bought it anyway. She still doesn't like it but knows it's here to stay.

I just had a couple people in my MX7-180C that were rather large. Both about 5'8" and 280 to 300 lbs. The biggest problem I had was that the seat belts didn't want to go around them. Got them buckled but it almost took a come-along to get it done. One in the back seat and one up front with me sitting a little sideways. One big thing to consider is that the 180 has less weight up front. I thought it was only 105 lbs between it and the 235 but I may be wrong. Anyway, it makes a big difference on how much you can load in the back. If you have two teenage kids you wont be able to carry much luggage back there without going out the rear end of the envelope. With those two large people in mine and about 40 gallons of petrol I was right at gross and sitting on the aft CG limit. When I take my family I have to put the youngest daughter in the back because I cant put my son and wife back there together with the luggage we usually have.

I only carry liability. Some day I may regret that but I'd rather put the money into fuel or toys.

[Kansas Slim]

If you have two teenage kids you wont be able to carry much luggage back there without going out the rear end of the envelope.

Forgive me for not researching this on my own, but regarding the CG window, is it typical to easily push a taildragger CG too far aft? Conceptually speaking, I would think tricycle geared aircraft would be more sensitive to that. Would this be an area where some manufacturers have the advantage in CG distribution? Is this a weakness of the Maule?

Having been in RW aviation for many years now, I suspect similarly configured aircraft, regardless of brand label, would have similar CG envelopes. Am I wrong?

[maules.com]

I've been using and selling Maules for 36 years now and no cg difficulty.
Except the time when 600lbs of moose broke loose and slid to the rear of the cabin on rotation!!!

[Kansas Slim]

Except the time when 600lbs of moose broke loose and slid to the rear of the cabin on rotation!!!

Wow! That must have been interesting, especially on the landing. I've been to your web site. Have you any connections to Maule owners or instructors in MO, KS, AR, OK area...or even northeast Texas?

[Mr. Ed]

OK, here's the figures for my MX7-180C. 40 gallons of petrol, me and wife in the front, son and daughter in the back. I can only get 11 pounds of baggage in the plane without going out the aft end of the envelope. I'm only at 2358 gross with a max gross of 2500.

If I put the son up front with me and the wife and daughter in the back I can have 35 pounds of baggage max without going out the aft end of the envelope. (same 40 gallons of fuel).

Note: I'm using the following weights: Me 170, Wife 130, Son 180, Daughter 110.

Now, will it fly with 350 pounds of humans in the front seats and 400 pounds stacked in the back with the back seats out and 70 gallons of petrol? I heard a rumor that it will fly just fine but I wouldn't go out that way and practice stalls.

[andy]

Your basic empty weight must be about 84 lbs more than my MX-7-180's 1409 lbs since I plugged your numbers into my graph and got a weight of 2274 rather than 2358. What do you have on your MX7-180C that would weigh that much more?

[andy]

I've taken the rear seat out and filled the back up with 360 lbs of baggage, 340 lbs of people in the front seats and 66 gallons of fuel putting me at max gross weight. The takeoff distance and climb rate won't win any records, but it flies fine.

Maybe Maule revised the weight and balance envelopes on the MX-7-180C vs. the 1986 MX-7-180. Jeremy?

[aero101]

I'm about the same as Andy and agree with him... Never ever had a problem with too far aft CG and have seen overgross with back filled to ceiling. You sure your numbers are right, might be worth weighing again and starting over especially if never done and on that old of an airplane, maybe during course of normal recalculations due to equipment changes someone made a error. When light, with low fuel, just pilot, and nothing in back you should be very close to front of envelope if you've got a typical MX7-180?

[TomD]

After I recovered my M5-235C with Ceconite ( removing Razorback ) my biggest issue was keeping the cg from going too far forward. The difference between razorback and ceconite on the tail was huge.

I guess I could get it out of aft CG ( 600lb moose would be one way ) but otherwise cannot come up with a loading plan that gets aft cg within Max gross limits.

[a64pilot]

You'll know your too far aft when the aircraft won't trim in pitch, and you'll notice that there is little to no "push back" on the yoke in pitch.
If this happens, your best plan is not to go and try to land, but to burn off fuel. The more fuel you burn, the farther forward you CG will move. I've had this happen to me n the way to Sun-N-Fun a few years ago, and no I didn't compute either CG or gross weight, I stuffed the airplane until I couldn't get any more into it. Since then, I have added that heavy three blade prop,and I can stuff it until nothing else will fit, and it flies just fine.